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  • #16
    Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
    Sckarolek

    For winterizing the eater in the discharged hose would have to be removed or treated well with RV antifreeze.

    Brian
    So, back to my original question. Since Grand Design sells these rigs with the ability to install laundry machines. Can anyone from Grand Design explain how to appropriately winterize / de-winterize the laundry feed and drain pipes with and without the laundry machine installed?

    Thanks, Steve
    My trailer: Grand Design Momentum 397TH with many small modifications and a fairly large (1700W panels, 10KW batteries) DIY solar install.

    My truck: 2020 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn 4x4 DRW, 6.7L Cummins HO Turbo Diesel, Aisin 6-speed, 4.10 axle, Patriot Blue Pearlcoat, Longhorn L1, Towing Tech, Max tow, Towing prep, 30K 5th wheel, Cold Weather pkg, Safety group, Body color bumpers, Tow hooks, Auto level, 50 gal fuel, Bed step, Side steps, Sunroof, Aux switches, Air Horn, TruXedo Sentry bed cover

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sckarolek View Post

      So, back to my original question. Since Grand Design sells these rigs with the ability to install laundry machines. Can anyone from Grand Design explain how to appropriately winterize / de-winterize the laundry feed and drain pipes with and without the laundry machine installed?

      Thanks, Steve
      Grand Design does install a trap in the washing machine drain plumbing. Without a trap, gray tank gasses would permeate the coach. However it is NOT a p-trap. It is a hepVo trap and it is waterless. Since no water is contained in that drain pipe, no winterization is needed.

      For the supply lines, you can connect a short piece of hose to the the threaded fitting and then run the other end into a container until you see anti-freeze flowing. Shut off the valve and discard the contents in the container.

      Here is a photo of the hepVo valve in my trailer. It is the white device in the drain pipe.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	hepVo Trap.jpg Views:	0 Size:	54.0 KB ID:	32462

      Here is more information on a hepVo trap if anyone is interested:

      https://hepvo.com/

      Jim
      GDRV Forum Moderator
      GDRV SW USA Rally Support Coordinator

      Jim and Ginnie
      2017 Reflection 297RSTS

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      • #18
        I went to the parts lookup for more information on the hepVo valve that GDRV uses. Here is the parts sheet for my 2017 297RSTS Reflection TT.

        https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...ts/detail/1299

        Jim
        GDRV Forum Moderator
        GDRV SW USA Rally Support Coordinator

        Jim and Ginnie
        2017 Reflection 297RSTS

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

          Grand Design does install a trap in the washing machine drain plumbing. Without a trap, gray tank gasses would permeate the coach. However it is NOT a p-trap. It is a hepVo trap and it is waterless. Since no water is contained in that drain pipe, no winterization is needed.

          For the supply lines, you can connect a short piece of hose to the the threaded fitting and then run the other end into a container until you see anti-freeze flowing. Shut off the valve and discard the contents in the container.

          Here is a photo of the hepVo valve in my trailer. It is the white device in the drain pipe.


          Jim
          Thanks Jim, appreciated. To winterize this year, we just put a rag towel under each open feed line in turn until anti-freeze flowed out. I thought about using a paint tray to catch it next year, but a short hose into a container makes more sense. I guess for de-winterizing, I could run a hose from each feed line into the drain pipe and flush...

          Steve
          My trailer: Grand Design Momentum 397TH with many small modifications and a fairly large (1700W panels, 10KW batteries) DIY solar install.

          My truck: 2020 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn 4x4 DRW, 6.7L Cummins HO Turbo Diesel, Aisin 6-speed, 4.10 axle, Patriot Blue Pearlcoat, Longhorn L1, Towing Tech, Max tow, Towing prep, 30K 5th wheel, Cold Weather pkg, Safety group, Body color bumpers, Tow hooks, Auto level, 50 gal fuel, Bed step, Side steps, Sunroof, Aux switches, Air Horn, TruXedo Sentry bed cover

          Comment


          • #20
            Getting ready to winterize our 337RLS and decided to read the Owners Manual for a refresher. For our previous travel trailer I would winterize without performing an air blowout and just pump antifreeze throughout the system after draining everything. Never had a freeze issue or problem with the piping (we are in PA). The GD manual for our new unit, under the Nautilus P1 section, describes blowing out the lines at 40 psi before proceeding with the antifreeze injection. For those much more experienced than I, is blowing out with air a necessity or will properly following the antifreeze procedure be sufficient? Appreciate your feedback.
            Mark & Ellen
            2020 Reflection 337RLS
            2019 RAM 3500 Mega Cab SRW

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MAW7228 View Post
              Getting ready to winterize our 337RLS and decided to read the Owners Manual for a refresher. For our previous travel trailer I would winterize without performing an air blowout and just pump antifreeze throughout the system after draining everything. Never had a freeze issue or problem with the piping (we are in PA). The GD manual for our new unit, under the Nautilus P1 section, describes blowing out the lines at 40 psi before proceeding with the antifreeze injection. For those much more experienced than I, is blowing out with air a necessity or will properly following the antifreeze procedure be sufficient? Appreciate your feedback.
              You can do the air blow out if you want but I believe that it is not necessary. With water in the system it has been noted that this will help with priming the pump to draw antifreeze into the system (somebody mentioned this in another thread). As long as you get a good flow of antifreeze from all fixtures you should be good to go , as you found out with your previous unit. Remember to do the faucet at the Nautilus panel as well as the outside spray port attachment if you have one.

              Brian
              Brian & Michelle
              2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
              2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

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              • #22
                Thanks Brian. I always go through with probably more of the antifreeze than necessary. Better safe than sorry.
                Mark & Ellen
                2020 Reflection 337RLS
                2019 RAM 3500 Mega Cab SRW

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                • #23
                  Is it OK/safe to just use air and not pump anti-freeze through the system?
                  2020 Imagine 2400BH
                  2014 Ford F150 FX4 4x4 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost and tow package (not max tow)

                  Our Mods

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bellis View Post
                    Is it OK/safe to just use air and not pump anti-freeze through the system?
                    bellis

                    Air alone is not acceptable where much of the water will be purged from the system but not all. After bypassing my water heater, I blow out all the lines at 60 psi, then will follow up with RV antifreeze.

                    ​​​​​​​Jim
                    2017 Imagine 2600RB
                    2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bellis View Post
                      Is it OK/safe to just use air and not pump anti-freeze through the system?
                      There is a reason that RV manufacturers winterize with antifreeze before shipping during winter months. If air alone was sufficient, they would go with this less expensive alternative. Anyone who has disassembled their RV plumbing system for service/repair (including me), after blowing out the system with air, will confirm that there is still a lot of water in the low sections, particularly the lines to/from the pump. The pump does not like to pump air and you can’t blow air through it to clear connecting lines.

                      Plumbing antifreeze is cheap insurance and includes lubricating additives that are good for seals etc during storage.

                      Rob
                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                        Anyone who has disassembled their RV plumbing system for service/repair (including me), after blowing out the system with air, will confirm that there is still a lot of water in the low sections, particularly the lines to/from the pump.
                        I can confirm from personal experience (from my sott hose replacement project) that every time I disconnected a line from the "empty" system there was water. "Low point drains" are a nice concept but, at least in my trailer, there are multiple locations where water pools in the lines. Air will not get it all out.

                        My .02: anti-freeze is all that's needed to winterize.

                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bellis View Post
                          Is it OK/safe to just use air and not pump anti-freeze through the system?
                          I agree with all the others that air purge by itself is not going to be enough to prevent a frozen pipe. I purge with air first per the owners manual and then pump antifreeze through the system until I get a nice pink colour at each tap. I also purge the black tank flush with antifreeze as well. I never used to blow out the pipes in my previous trailer and never had an issue there either. Just figure I will follow the process as outlined by GD on this one.

                          Rob
                          Rob & Barb
                          2019 RAM 3500 Big Horn, 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
                          2022 Solitude 378MBS

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                          • #28
                            The only problem with air purge before introducing antifreeze is that this can cause an air lock in the pump which will make it difficult to draw in the antifreeze from a jug. I have never had a problem going from water directly to antifreeze. In fact, even if you blow out the lines, when you introduce the antifreeze, the first thing to come out of a faucet will be water . . . the water left in the lines after blowing out with air . . . as discussed earlier .

                            As mentioned in another thread, catch the water that comes out of the faucet before the antifreeze in a bowl, to prevent putting this water into your grey tanks. As soon as the faucet runs pink, let the antifreeze go down the drain to winterize the P trap and put some antifreeze in your grey tanks.

                            In my opinion, the air purge is not necessary.

                            Rob
                            Cate & Rob
                            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                            2015 Reflection 303RLS
                            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                              The only problem with air purge before introducing antifreeze is that this can cause an air lock in the pump which will make it difficult to draw in the antifreeze from a jug. I have never had a problem going from water directly to antifreeze. In fact, even if you blow out the lines, when you introduce the antifreeze, the first thing to come out of a faucet will be water . . . the water left in the lines after blowing out with air . . . as discussed earlier .

                              As mentioned in another thread, catch the water that comes out of the faucet before the antifreeze in a bowl, to prevent putting this water into your grey tanks. As soon as the faucet runs pink, let the antifreeze go down the drain to winterize the P trap and put some antifreeze in your grey tanks.

                              In my opinion, the air purge is not necessary.

                              Rob
                              Rob,

                              I've used both methods (air + antifreeze or antifreeze alone) and in both cases have not had any issues. I figured I could reduce the amount of antifreeze if I blew out the lines. Nope. One thing that did catch my attention this year was blowing out the lines while the docking station valve was set to city fill. I blew out a significant amount of water in the line that leads back to the tank that I would not have otherwise purged out. I've not seen the plumbing diagram so I'm not sure what lines are shared or not. I did remember your plumbing job and comments on so much water being left in the lines.

                              Good tip on catching the raw water before turning pink.

                              Jim
                              Last edited by MidwestCamper; 11-02-2020, 02:47 PM. Reason: Needed clarity on the two methods used as air alone is not satisfactory
                              2017 Imagine 2600RB
                              2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bellis View Post
                                Is it OK/safe to just use air and not pump anti-freeze through the system?
                                I think the answer is somewhat regional. People down south where it doesn't get below freezing, an airpurge is ok. Place like that get below freezing. (I'm looking at you Montana) need antifreeze.

                                For reference, here is January 2019:



                                From your neck of the woods, I'd say antifreeze is in order:

                                Mike
                                2017 Imagine 2800BH pushing a 2012 Toyota Tundra

                                Formerly: 2002 Rockwood Popup
                                Location: Massachusetts

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