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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

    Unless you have attached a contaminated hose (public dump station or similar) to your black tank flush, there is no way that a potable water hose will become contaminated by flushing the black tank, as long as you disconnect the hose when you are finished flushing and let the clean water drain back out in both directions from the vacuum break. This is the function of the vacuum break valve. The idea that the black tank flush connection is somehow contaminated by flushing the black tank is like saying you won't brush your teeth at the bathroom sink because the cold water line also flushes the toilet.

    (another) Rob
    I'm not real familiar with how the vacuum break functions. Will blowing out the black flush line damage the break? Or will air just not get past the break.

    Last winter was my first year with my Reflection, a Nautilus system, and using anti-freeze. I never thought of the black tank flush line, and even though we didn't have many days of freezing temps, there was no harm done to the line. Maybe just lucky.
    2020 Reflection 273MK
    2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

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    • #47
      Lonestar

      A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

      For the line between the vacuum break and the tank to be truly empty, it must have a constant downward slope all the way to the tank. This is not always the case. Blowing out the black tank flush line with air might not remove all the water from a low section of this hose, which is why antifreeze is recommended. The reason that many owners get away with not using antifreeze is that this flush line is usually soft hose which can tolerate freezing expansion of the water inside, as long as the water is not trapped in a fitting than can break.

      Rob

      Click image for larger version

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      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
        Lonestar

        A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

        For the line between the vacuum break and the tank to be truly empty, it must have a constant downward slope all the way to the tank. This is not always the case. Blowing out the black tank flush line with air might not remove all the water from a low section of this hose, which is why antifreeze is recommended. The reason that many owners get away with not using antifreeze is that this flush line is usually soft hose which can tolerate freezing expansion of the water inside, as long as the water is not trapped in a fitting than can break.

        Rob

        Click image for larger version

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        Thank you for the info. The diagram is excellent.

        2020 Reflection 273MK
        2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
          Lonestar

          A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

          Rob

          Click image for larger version

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ID:	36139
          Another question please. In the Nautilus P1 manual Winterizing section, they specify to initially blow the system out with the 4 handles in a 45 degree angle position. What is the purpose of this setting?

          My thinking is the "City Water" position would be a straight path from the city water inlet to all lines and faucets. They do not mention blowing lines in this setting. Why not??

          2020 Reflection 273MK
          2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Lonestar View Post

            Another question please. In the Nautilus P1 manual Winterizing section, they specify to initially blow the system out with the 4 handles in a 45 degree angle position. What is the purpose of this setting?

            My thinking is the "City Water" position would be a straight path from the city water inlet to all lines and faucets. They do not mention blowing lines in this setting. Why not??
            The 45 degree position helps the air to purge the water in all of the lines and valves on the back of the Nautilus panel. If this was not done there could be some residual water left in a valve or line that would freeze and break.

            Brian
            Brian & Michelle
            2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
            2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K
            630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Country Campers View Post

              The 45 degree position helps the air to purge the water in all of the lines and valves on the back of the Nautilus panel. If this was not done there could be some residual water left in a valve or line that would freeze and break.

              Brian
              OK makes sense. Still seems you would also blow air in the "City Water" position, but guess need to after the first setting.

              Also when pumping antifreeze, I see it's recommended after setting handles to "Winterize" and pumping, to again set handles to the 45 degree position and pump antifreeze. I assume this serves the same purpose of getting the antifreeze in the valves and lines of the Nautilus system.

              I know this isn't rocket science, just different than my old system pre-Nautilus. I felt comfortable then.
              2020 Reflection 273MK
              2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Lonestar View Post

                I know this isn't rocket science, just different than my old system pre-Nautilus. I felt comfortable then.
                Yes to this!!!!

                My previous TT had a pump and 2 small valves. Easy to use and easy to winterize. The Nautilus panel is just a "fancy" item that looks "cool". Over thought out process in my opinion. This also goes with all of the other items in our world , make it smarter and it will be better. Sometimes less is more and much easier.
                The Nautilus panel is nice , a little , easy to switch between uses , but too many moving parts. I have actually thought about removing it , while doing some other plumbing mods , but have not put too much effort into it so far , why fix it if it is not broken yet.

                Brian
                Brian & Michelle
                2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K
                630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Country Campers View Post

                  Yes to this!!!!

                  My previous TT had a pump and 2 small valves. Easy to use and easy to winterize. The Nautilus panel is just a "fancy" item that looks "cool". Over thought out process in my opinion. This also goes with all of the other items in our world , make it smarter and it will be better. Sometimes less is more and much easier.
                  The Nautilus panel is nice , a little , easy to switch between uses , but too many moving parts. I have actually thought about removing it , while doing some other plumbing mods , but have not put too much effort into it so far , why fix it if it is not broken yet.

                  Brian
                  You and I think exactly alike! The *only* feature I like is the ability to siphon (pump) water from a container into the fresh water tank. That might be useful sometime.

                  My old 5th wheel simply had a water heater bypass. I never used anti-freeze, just turned the bypass and hooked compressor to city water input. Never had an issue. I really believe the Nautilus system is for the benefit on the manufacturer. Much quicker on the assembly line with everything in one place.

                  It would probably be a pretty big job to remove the Nautilus and retrofit a conventional system. But, after reading some of the posts about how the soft tubing between the pex and the Nautilus leaks, it may be about as much work as extending the pex tubing. One of these days someone is going to try it I bet.
                  2020 Reflection 273MK
                  2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Lonestar and Country Campers ,

                    bogen2 has already paved the way on how to do exactly what you're describing. His solution looks simple and solid.

                    https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...odbye-nautilus
                    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by howson View Post
                      Lonestar and Country Campers ,

                      bogen2 has already paved the way on how to do exactly what you're describing. His solution looks simple and solid.

                      https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...odbye-nautilus
                      That is a brilliant install by Bogen2. It looks complicated at first but other than taking a lot of time probably wouldn't be that difficult.

                      I was thinking of modifying back to the more simple days of just having a city water input, a fresh water tank input, and a water heater bypass. I'm not sure Bogen's idea would take much more time.

                      If I can get the winterizing down to what I feel comfortable with, and remove the soft hose, I think I can live with the Nautilus system. Time will tell.

                      2020 Reflection 273MK
                      2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Can we just use a compressor and blow out the system making sure we do not exceed the 45 PSI?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jack K View Post
                          Can we just use a compressor and blow out the system making sure we do not exceed the 45 PSI?
                          Yes you can. You will however run the risk of water collecting in a low area and freezing , as noted throughout this thread. It is a risk but there are some that do it.

                          Brian
                          Brian & Michelle
                          2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                          2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K
                          630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Don't forget to remove the screen on the fresh water inlet and push check value til anti-freeze squirts out.

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                            • #59
                              Glad this thread is here. This will be the first time winterizing a trailer with anti-freeze. Since '93 I have always blown out the lines with air. But since my selling dealer and several knowledgeable people on this site seem to think it is a bit risky on these trailers, I'll go the anti-freeze route this year.
                              One question. Is one gallon enough?
                              2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                              2021 Reflection 303RLS, Haloview RD7, Strong-arms, Micro-Air364

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
                                Glad this thread is here. This will be the first time winterizing a trailer with anti-freeze. Since '93 I have always blown out the lines with air. But since my selling dealer and several knowledgeable people on this site seem to think it is a bit risky on these trailers, I'll go the anti-freeze route this year.
                                One question. Is one gallon enough?
                                I have used about 2.5 gallons. What I do is put 3 or 4 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket and syphon from that. This way I can go around all of the fixtures easily without running back outside to switch jugs, extras can be poured back into jug for next year. I also use air to blow most of the water out before the antifreeze. Before leaving the campground on our last trip of the year I open all fixtures and the low point drains for the travel home, this also helps to get a lot of the water out. Also run plenty thru the fixtures for the drain traps, and also do the outside spray ports.

                                Brian
                                Brian & Michelle
                                2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
                                2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K
                                630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar

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