Winterizing Our Rigs

[Country Campers]

I know this isn't rocket science, just different than my old system pre-Nautilus. I felt comfortable then.

Yes to this!!!!

My previous TT had a pump and 2 small valves. Easy to use and easy to winterize. The Nautilus panel is just a "fancy" item that looks "cool". Over thought out process in my opinion. This also goes with all of the other items in our world , make it smarter and it will be better. Sometimes less is more and much easier.
The Nautilus panel is nice , a little , easy to switch between uses , but too many moving parts. I have actually thought about removing it , while doing some other plumbing mods , but have not put too much effort into it so far , why fix it if it is not broken yet.

Brian

[Lonestar]

The 45 degree position helps the air to purge the water in all of the lines and valves on the back of the Nautilus panel. If this was not done there could be some residual water left in a valve or line that would freeze and break.

Brian

OK makes sense. Still seems you would also blow air in the "City Water" position, but guess need to after the first setting.

Also when pumping antifreeze, I see it's recommended after setting handles to "Winterize" and pumping, to again set handles to the 45 degree position and pump antifreeze. I assume this serves the same purpose of getting the antifreeze in the valves and lines of the Nautilus system.

I know this isn't rocket science, just different than my old system pre-Nautilus. I felt comfortable then.

[Country Campers]

Another question please. In the Nautilus P1 manual Winterizing section, they specify to initially blow the system out with the 4 handles in a 45 degree angle position. What is the purpose of this setting?

My thinking is the "City Water" position would be a straight path from the city water inlet to all lines and faucets. They do not mention blowing lines in this setting. Why not??

The 45 degree position helps the air to purge the water in all of the lines and valves on the back of the Nautilus panel. If this was not done there could be some residual water left in a valve or line that would freeze and break.

Brian

[Lonestar]

Lonestar

A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

Rob

Another question please. In the Nautilus P1 manual Winterizing section, they specify to initially blow the system out with the 4 handles in a 45 degree angle position. What is the purpose of this setting?

My thinking is the "City Water" position would be a straight path from the city water inlet to all lines and faucets. They do not mention blowing lines in this setting. Why not??

[Lonestar]

Lonestar

A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

For the line between the vacuum break and the tank to be truly empty, it must have a constant downward slope all the way to the tank. This is not always the case. Blowing out the black tank flush line with air might not remove all the water from a low section of this hose, which is why antifreeze is recommended. The reason that many owners get away with not using antifreeze is that this flush line is usually soft hose which can tolerate freezing expansion of the water inside, as long as the water is not trapped in a fitting than can break.

Rob

Thank you for the info. The diagram is excellent.

[Cate&Rob]

Lonestar

A vacuum break functions such that when pressurized on the inlet side (with water or air) the valve "opens" allowing this pressurized source to flow through to the output side (the black tank flush nozzle). When the inlet side pressure is removed, the valve "closes" but opens a vent which allows air into the output side which causes water in that side to drop into the tank, leaving the line (theoretically) empty. See attached diagram.

For the line between the vacuum break and the tank to be truly empty, it must have a constant downward slope all the way to the tank. This is not always the case. Blowing out the black tank flush line with air might not remove all the water from a low section of this hose, which is why antifreeze is recommended. The reason that many owners get away with not using antifreeze is that this flush line is usually soft hose which can tolerate freezing expansion of the water inside, as long as the water is not trapped in a fitting than can break.

Rob

[Lonestar]

Unless you have attached a contaminated hose (public dump station or similar) to your black tank flush, there is no way that a potable water hose will become contaminated by flushing the black tank, as long as you disconnect the hose when you are finished flushing and let the clean water drain back out in both directions from the vacuum break. This is the function of the vacuum break valve. The idea that the black tank flush connection is somehow contaminated by flushing the black tank is like saying you won't brush your teeth at the bathroom sink because the cold water line also flushes the toilet.

(another) Rob

I'm not real familiar with how the vacuum break functions. Will blowing out the black flush line damage the break? Or will air just not get past the break.

Last winter was my first year with my Reflection, a Nautilus system, and using anti-freeze. I never thought of the black tank flush line, and even though we didn't have many days of freezing temps, there was no harm done to the line. Maybe just lucky.

[Calbar]

Calbar
Hi Rob,

I have long been a proponent of only use one hose between the campground supply and the trailer. There are several scenarios that can go wrong if a second hose is left attached to the black tank flush. I have elaborated on these in previous discussions. With one hose, it is either feeding the potable water system or flushing the black tank. No way to make a mistake.

I can’t count the number of times that I have seen two hoses connected to a trailer (one potable and one flush) and these T together at the post (as if physical distance from the trailer is some sort of safety measure). Then . . . they leave for the day and turn off the water at the post. Their black tank is now the only source of water for the potable system, through the T at the post. Luckily, the vacuum break can usually prevent this, but if it could not drain properly because the hose was left attached, there is risk.

A hose should never be connected to the black tank flush unless the tank is actively being flushed and the owner is watching over this. (In my opinion)

Rob

Agreed. I only connect to the black tank when I flush. Never every leave the hose connected there.

Rob

[Cate&Rob]

Calbar
Hi Rob,

I have long been a proponent of only use one hose between the campground supply and the trailer. There are several scenarios that can go wrong if a second hose is left attached to the black tank flush. I have elaborated on these in previous discussions. With one hose, it is either feeding the potable water system or flushing the black tank. No way to make a mistake.

I can’t count the number of times that I have seen two hoses connected to a trailer (one potable and one flush) and these T together at the post (as if physical distance from the trailer is some sort of safety measure). Then . . . they leave for the day and turn off the water at the post. Their black tank is now the only source of water for the potable system, through the T at the post. Luckily, the vacuum break can usually prevent this, but if it could not drain properly because the hose was left attached, there is risk.

A hose should never be connected to the black tank flush unless the tank is actively being flushed and the owner is watching over this. (In my opinion)

Rob

[Calbar]

Unless you have attached a contaminated hose (public dump station or similar) to your black tank flush, there is no way that a potable water hose will become contaminated by flushing the black tank, as long as you disconnect the hose when you are finished flushing and let the clean water drain back out in both directions from the vacuum break. This is the function of the vacuum break valve. The idea that the black tank flush connection is somehow contaminated by flushing the black tank is like saying you won't brush your teeth at the bathroom sink because the cold water line also flushes the toilet.

(another) Rob

Thanks Rob,

Makes sense to me as well. Considering that I never connect anything to the black tank connection besides my own hose (not drinking water though I guess I could) and that I sanitize the fresh water system every spring no sense in buying a hand pump. I will keep winterizing as I have.

Rob

[Cate&Rob]

I use the outside shower and connect the blue coil hose to the black tank flush. Probably not the best idea since I could contaminate my water lines

Unless you have attached a contaminated hose (public dump station or similar) to your black tank flush, there is no way that a potable water hose will become contaminated by flushing the black tank, as long as you disconnect the hose when you are finished flushing and let the clean water drain back out in both directions from the vacuum break. This is the function of the vacuum break valve. The idea that the black tank flush connection is somehow contaminated by flushing the black tank is like saying you won't brush your teeth at the bathroom sink because the cold water line also flushes the toilet.

(another) Rob

[Calbar]

How do you get antifreeze into the black tank flush?

I use the outside shower and connect the blue coil hose to the black tank flush. Probably not the best idea since I could contaminate my water lines but I do sanitize the fresh water lines in the spring after I flush the antifreeze out. Maybe I should get a small antifreeze hand pump something like this and using it just to ensure safety though.
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Antifre...5282479&sr=8-3

Rob

[Cate&Rob]

My overall thought is that with the vacuum breaker at the high point of the hose that both sides should drain once the hose is detached, thus nothing to protect against.

This is correct in theory, and was the reason that I did not bother with antifreeze in the black flush line, in the early years. Once I opened up the underbelly, I realized that the flush line to the tank goes under and around several things on it's way there, so that it is not a consistent downhill run to the black tank. The thing that saves us, is that the flush line is the soft hose material which can tolerate freezing expansion . . . still better to put in some antifreeze (in my opinion).

Rob

[ThePowells]

How do you get antifreeze into the black tank flush?

I don't know the methodology of how Calbar does it, but two that comes to mind are 1) using a backflow preventer, once everything else has anti-freeze, use the outside shower hose to induce antifreeze while still drawing from the jug, or using some type of attachment (think lawn chemical sprayer or car wash sprayer) to induce antifreeze into the hose. Leave the back flow preventer on to hold antifreeze in the hose going in. My overall thought is that with the vacuum breaker at the high point of the hose that both sides should drain once the hose is detached, thus nothing to protect against.
Being somewhat risk aversive, my first spring (we bought in late February, first trip first week in March) I had read the freezing horror stories, thus when it got below 30 I got extremely concerned even though it was plugged up with the furnace on low. After much more research and becoming much more familiar with my build I was well more prepared for my 2nd winter. Even with 140 consecutive hours below freezing and three mornings of temps between -1 and 6 above, the only antifreeze was in the waste tanks to protect the valve as there was no alternative to protect them. I'm just glad that we could keep ours at home and plugged to 30 Amp power (now 50 w/ the Solitude) and hooked up to the large LP tank. Being full timer in it makes it way, way much easier.

[Country Campers]

There are manual pumps for putting antifreeze into the black tank flush. I use the outside (shower hose) connection which I have reconfigured to attach to a spray nozzle or the black tank flush.

(another) Rob

Interesting enough I found the stock spray nozzle on the shower hose had the same male end as a garden hose.

Brian