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  • Water heater bypass valve

    On my 2020 Reflection 295RL, I can't find the water heater bypass valve for winterizing. Where is it? It doesn't say in the owner's manual.
    Richard

  • #2
    Good morning Richard. The winterizing procedure for Reflection fifth wheels is documented in the owner's manual which can be found on line. It starts on page 116. I'm attaching a link here.

    file:///C:/Users/Jim/Downloads/GDRV-...al-Rev0619.pdf

    Jim
    Jim and Ginnie
    2024 Solitude 310GK
    GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
    GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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    • #3
      Jim! I know this already! This is WHY I'm asking: the manual does not say where the valve is! Did you even read my question?
      Richard

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      • #4
        Originally posted by keysandstops View Post
        Jim! I know this already! This is WHY I'm asking: the manual does not say where the valve is! Did you even read my question?
        I did read your question. And it is in the owner's manual. See page 109. Reference the "red handle" in the middle of the page. Turn the handle sideways, and it bypasses the hot water heater.

        EDIT: Just to make sure, do you have the Nautilus Panel in your new unit?
        Jim and Ginnie
        2024 Solitude 310GK
        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you, Jim. Yes, I have the Nautilus P1 panel. It doesn't say anywhere that the red handle diverts water away from the water heater. Sounds like a manual revision is needed. Thanks very much for your help.
          Richard

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          • #6
            Next question: how do I prime the pump? I can't get it to suck anything out of the antifreeze bottle.
            Richard

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            • #7
              Yeah, I had that problem too. I did notice that if I lifted the anti-freeze higher than the inlet on the panel that it seemed to prime easier for me. I guess it gets a little siphon action going.

              Jim
              Jim and Ginnie
              2024 Solitude 310GK
              GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
              GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

              Comment


              • #8
                The trick to getting the pump to pull the antifreeze is to make sure that the pump and the line leading to it are full of water before starting. I do this by pulling water from the tank and running this through the pump until it is running smoothly before shutting off the pump and beginning the winterizing process. Folks run into this problem when they blow out the lines with air or open the low point drains before introducing the anti-freeze. Even if there is still water in the pump, it quickly purges this and then hits a pocket of air from the intake line and stops pumping. The other important thing is to open a cold water tap before starting to draw in the antifreeze, to make sure there is no back pressure against the output of the pump.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                  The trick to getting the pump to pull the antifreeze is to make sure that the pump and the line leading to it are full of water before starting. I do this by pulling water from the tank and running this through the pump until it is running smoothly before shutting off the pump and beginning the winterizing process. Folks run into this problem when they blow out the lines with air or open the low point drains before introducing the anti-freeze. Even if there is still water in the pump, it quickly purges this and then hits a pocket of air from the intake line and stops pumping. The other important thing is to open a cold water tap before starting to draw in the antifreeze, to make sure there is no back pressure against the output of the pump.

                  Rob
                  It sounds like GDRV needs to go back to the drawing board on the owner's manual. It says to blow out the lines before adding antifreeze. If people thoroughly blow out the lines, why would they need to add anti-freeze afterwards?

                  Jim
                  Jim and Ginnie
                  2024 Solitude 310GK
                  GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                  GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                    It sounds like GDRV needs to go back to the drawing board on the owner's manual. It says to blow out the lines before adding antifreeze. If people thoroughly blow out the lines, why would they need to add anti-freeze afterwards?

                    Jim
                    Hi Jim,

                    As I learned when I took apart my plumbing system to rebuild it (after blowing out the lines with air) . . . there was still lots of water in the lower parts of the lines and particularly in the lines to and from the pump, which air does not pass through when "blowing out" the lines. It is interesting that (as far as I know) Grand Design does not blow out the lines at the factory before filling with antifreeze for shipping during winter months. If they could save the cost of the antifreeze . . . I am sure that they would .

                    Rob
                    Cate & Rob
                    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                    2015 Reflection 303RLS
                    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by keysandstops View Post
                      Thank you, Jim. Yes, I have the Nautilus P1 panel. It doesn't say anywhere that the red handle diverts water away from the water heater. Sounds like a manual revision is needed. Thanks very much for your help.
                      Richard--check out post #3 in this thread: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...el-information

                      It may help you visualize how the panel works.

                      Howard
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by keysandstops View Post
                        Thank you, Jim. Yes, I have the Nautilus P1 panel. It doesn't say anywhere that the red handle diverts water away from the water heater. Sounds like a manual revision is needed. Thanks very much for your help.
                        Just wanted to add support for this confusion; you are surely not alone. If you have the same documentation we had for our 2018 Reflection, it does NOT make clear that the bypass is accomplished by the red valve on the Nautilus panel.

                        We had our confusion at the "front end" - i.e. not in winterizing but in using for the first time a trailer that had already been winterized. As I searched to ensure that the bypass valve was NOT open so we could be sure that the hot water tank was filled with water before we turned it on, online advice had me confused and even opening and crawling into the basement looking for a valve on the back of the water heater as some suggested and as some pictures (of a different water heater by the same manufacturer) showed. Two days using cold water did not make a good first impression of trailer life on my wife!

                        It was extremely frustrating and could so easily be overcome by a small change to the Grand Design and Nautilus documentation that makes this common need perfectly clear.
                        Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - Ford F-350 SRW diesel short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Richard
                          The way I get my pump to prime is I use a funnel to fill the suction line and cycle the pump. I hold the line as high as possible while cycling the pump. It may take a few fillings to get it fully primed. Then fill the hose, put you finger over the end and quickly get it into the jug of antifreeze. I also make sure I have a faucet open.

                          Rob is correct on water staying in the lines after blowing them out. However in using air I can be set on city water and make sure any water between the panel and hot water heater gets blown out. I also blow air through the water tank fill line. Once I have the air blown out I finish up with the antifreeze.
                          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

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                          • #14
                            I’m not understanding the “blow out the lines” step. Why bother to blow out the lines if you are going to refill them with anti-freeze? On my old travel trailer, I just started with putting in the anti-freeze. Then I turned on the faucets, one at a time, until I saw pink coming out. After I had pink at all of the faucets, I’d run some through so that the traps were full as well. While I put the anti-freeze directly into my empty freshwater tank on my old unit, and will be sucking it out of a jug on my GD, it appears that everything else is the same.

                            Am I missing something? This is my first season to winterize my new 303.


                            Thanks
                            Tom and Janice (also known as Richter on the “Other” forum)

                            First came the 18' Comfort bumper-pull, was great for 20 years.
                            Now a 2019 Reflection 303RLS, second air, double glass, table and chairs
                            2019 F350 Lariat 4x4 Crewcab with lots of goodies
                            Andersen aluminum with the puck system holding it all together
                            Cranberry Twp. PA, about 30 miles north of Pittsburgh

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tom in PGH View Post
                              I’m not understanding the “blow out the lines” step.
                              Hi Tom,

                              In my opinion, you are exactly correct. I have tried every version of this, from air only, to air then antifreeze, to antifreeze only. The simplest (and easiest) is what you describe. The problem that I have encountered with the "recommended" blow-out-the-lines-first process is that this creates pockets of air that cause the pump to lose its prime. Drawing in the antifreeze directly after the water prevents this.

                              Don't forget to crack open the low point drains after the system is full of antifreeze. (Ask me how I know this ) BTW, replacing the low point drain caps with small valves simplifies this.

                              Rob

                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment

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