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  • It's not PEX, toilet water shut off fail.

    The toilet started not shutting off resulting in it overflowing onto the bathroom floor.

    So I messed with it a bit, cleaned it a bit, put some stuff on it, but it would only shut off if you pulled up on the flush handle. So I ordered some parts, new ball, new seals, etc. About once a year I get to take that toilet apart and fix it. Then it dawned on me that if I put a shut off valve inline it would speed the process and folks could still do dishes or cook or get a glass of water while I was playing with the toilet. Another good plan....

    HeHe, I always love it when a good plan falls apart.

    I didn't know the nomenclature, type, size for the type of pipe used in my RV. So I asked the question in one of the forums I follow, Pex 1/2 inch was the unanimous reply. Cool, I have read a lot about Pex projects in GD Momentums. Easy peasy. Then I got to the hardware store. I had already cut the hose so had a nice sample with me to purchase the correct fittings and a cutoff valve.

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    The helpful hardware guy patiently explained to me that this was not Pex and Pex fitting would not work. It's not irrigation hose. It's not PVC hose. It's not gas hose. In fact, he had nothing in the store that would fit that hose and recommended that I drive to the RV supply store 102 miles up the road. And I had already cut the hose and had no way to put it back. And DW was due back anytime and always has to go after driving.....

    So I hunted around and picked up a mish mash of inappropriate hardware and put together a Frankenstein like cut off valve. Now the professionals will look at this next picture and cringe, and will rightly say that it will never work. But if you add enough Teflon tape and tighten those hose clamps down to breaking point you can get most of the leaking stopped.

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    As soon as I figure out what type of pipe that really is and get some appropriate hardware I will fix this mess. In the mean time I will be watching for the inevitable leak.

    I also appreciate anyone piping up with some advice.
    2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
    2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
    Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

  • #2
    d2reid

    That is the infamous "soft hose". In the plumbing section and in the reference section of the plumbing section you will find more information than you thought possible about this hose. Bottom line replace this hose with real PEX pipe and do not look back. All the fittings in your RV are for PEX pipe but the manufactures found that it is faster and easier to bend the soft hose around corners and such. I found 2 leaking pex fittings with soft hose attached to them this spring while getting ready for the first trip.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
    2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

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    • #3
      d2reid

      With all your years on this and another forum . . . how could you have missed all the "soft hose" discussion??

      A few years back, I put together the attached to show what fits with what. The soft hose has a 1/2" ID and is supposed to be fitted to a 1/2" barbed hose fitting. As many on this forum have described, the soft hose will stay crimped to a smaller diameter Pex fitting . . . for a while . . . but if disturbed for any reason, will likely start to leak.

      Rob

      Soft Hose Leaks.pdf
      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

      Comment


      • #4
        Country Campers Not being a very good mechanic/technician I operate with the philosophy of "If it aint broke don't fix it." My Mo was 4 years old this last April Made several laps around the US and Canada. Been over really rough roads. Been at 100+psi RV parks. Froze. Been super hot. No hose/fixture related leaks. At least until I decided I needed a shutoff valve for the toilet water supply.



        Cate&Rob I think I have seen your write up before, but didn't remember until I saw it again. I claim Senior Moment... So I didn't mess up too badly, I got the 1/2 barb thing right, just the wrong material. When I put the brass barb into the hose there was still a lot of play, the plastic one fit tighter. Sorry no micrometer available for me scientifically tell what the difference is. But the plastic barb thingy didn't fit into the brass shut off valve correctly and was leaking. So I used about 8 wraps of teflon tape and two big wrenches and torqued on it. It hasn't leaked all afternoon. I am pretty sure it's going to cause me problems down the road, But right now it aint broke.
        2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
        2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
        Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by d2reid View Post
          Country Campers Not being a very good mechanic/technician I operate with the philosophy of "If it aint broke don't fix it." My Mo was 4 years old this last April Made several laps around the US and Canada. Been over really rough roads. Been at 100+psi RV parks. Froze. Been super hot. No hose/fixture related leaks. At least until I decided I needed a shutoff valve for the toilet water supply.



          Cate&Rob I think I have seen your write up before, but didn't remember until I saw it again. I claim Senior Moment... So I didn't mess up too badly, I got the 1/2 barb thing right, just the wrong material. When I put the brass barb into the hose there was still a lot of play, the plastic one fit tighter. Sorry no micrometer available for me scientifically tell what the difference is. But the plastic barb thingy didn't fit into the brass shut off valve correctly and was leaking. So I used about 8 wraps of teflon tape and two big wrenches and torqued on it. It hasn't leaked all afternoon. I am pretty sure it's going to cause me problems down the road, But right now it aint broke.
          I very recently added a bidet and encountered the same hose issue. I initially used a brass 1/2" Pex tee and it was sloppy and read Rob's document and went back and got a non-Pex brass tee and it was tight. Make sure your 1/2" brass barb is non-Pex.

          One more reason I hate plumbing. 1/2" is not 1/2" is not 1/2".
          Terry and Patty (Dogs-Sophie and Tessa)
          2020 Reflection 297RSTS - bought Oct 2019
          2021 F350 crew cab, SRW, 6.7L diesel, 14K equal-i-zer hitch

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by trkester View Post

            1/2" is not 1/2" is not 1/2".
            That is exactly the problem LOL !

            Rob

            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              d2reid

              With all your years on this and another forum . . . how could you have missed all the "soft hose" discussion??

              A few years back, I put together the attached to show what fits with what. The soft hose has a 1/2" ID and is supposed to be fitted to a 1/2" barbed hose fitting. As many on this forum have described, the soft hose will stay crimped to a smaller diameter Pex fitting . . . for a while . . . but if disturbed for any reason, will likely start to leak.

              Rob

              [ATTACH]n60594[/ATTACH]
              Question, stupid maybe, in your very nice PDF write-up on page 5 you state that 1/2" OD hose barb is the correct one but on the hose barb package it says 1/2" ID. I'm assuming the package means the hose barb is for a 1/2" ID hose and the hose barb is not 1/2" ID?

              I just want to be sure I am getting correct spare parts.
              Mike & Lisa
              Central Florida
              2021 Imagine 2970RL
              1996 Chevy K3500 Crew SRW 7.4L Gas

              Comment


              • #8
                OurNewEra
                Hi Mike & Lisa:

                In all the years since I first posted that summary . . . no one has picked up on that. Good question. I "think" that since the packaging starts off with the description "Hose Barb", the 1/2" refers back to the hose ID . . . although, this is definitely not clear in the description. The soft hose ID is definitely 1/2" so the rings of the hose barb should be that size or a very slightly larger diameter. Now that I look at the packaging carefully, the other end of the description is curious as well. 3/8" MIP? typically that would be referred to a MPT (male pipe thread). Maybe something is getting lost in the translation from wherever these are made and packaged.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                  OurNewEra
                  Hi Mike & Lisa:

                  In all the years since I first posted that summary . . . no one has picked up on that. Good question. I "think" that since the packaging starts off with the description "Hose Barb", the 1/2" refers back to the hose ID . . . although, this is definitely not clear in the description. The soft hose ID is definitely 1/2" so the rings of the hose barb should be that size or a very slightly larger diameter. Now that I look at the packaging carefully, the other end of the description is curious as well. 3/8" MIP? typically that would be referred to a MPT (male pipe thread). Maybe something is getting lost in the translation from wherever these are made and packaged.

                  Rob
                  Thanks for the response. I am going to go with the 1/2" ID refers to the hose. The ID of the hose barb is mostly not relevant. I don't know what would be lost in translation as it is Hecho in USA. Or do you mean US English to Canadian English, or French Canadian. I have a friend and business colleague outside Winnipeg so I understand the loss in translation as French is her primary language.

                  For the couple of sources I found MIP = Male Iron Pipe and MPT = Male Pipe Thread. The sources said they are interchangeable.
                  Mike & Lisa
                  Central Florida
                  2021 Imagine 2970RL
                  1996 Chevy K3500 Crew SRW 7.4L Gas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    d2reid

                    My very first foray into the world of RV plumbing was exactly the line you are working on. I attempted to jam a shark bite type valve onto the soft hose (first picture) only to find that while wrestling that valve into position, I had disturbed the soft hose to Pex connection just below the floor and it was now leaking. (Something that you might want to check .) Next attempt was all Pex with a better valve. This configuration (second picture) has been leak free for years.

                    Rob

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                    Cate & Rob
                    (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                    2015 Reflection 303RLS
                    2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                    Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                      [USER="2234"] I had disturbed the soft hose to Pex connection just below the floor and it was now leaking. (Something that you might want to check .)
                      I like your end product a lot better than my end product. And no, I really don't want to check that particular pex connection for leakage. You see it's in behind a panel in the middle of my bay that is chocked full of stuff. Probably take me at least one full day to do that, maybe two. Then of course as long as I am in there I might as well get the correct pex parts and redo the whole hose assembly. But then you must have ESP because I didn't take the pex crimping tool and 1/2 clamps back. My project that day was not the cutoff valve, it was fixing the toilet. Now I get to plan another project day to fix my bad "improvement".

                      2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                      2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
                      Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                        d2reid

                        My very first foray into the world of RV plumbing was exactly the line you are working on. I attempted to jam a shark bite type valve onto the soft hose (first picture) only to find that while wrestling that valve into position, I had disturbed the soft hose to Pex connection just below the floor and it was now leaking. (Something that you might want to check .) Next attempt was all Pex with a better valve. This configuration (second picture) has been leak free for years.

                        Rob

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                        Creating a leak in the soft hose connection below the flooring is what I think I did this week adding a bidet and tugging on that soft supply hose. The mobile tech comes tomorrow and I'll find out then what is leaking under there.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RBinMcD View Post

                          Creating a leak in the soft hose connection below the flooring is what I think I did this week adding a bidet and tugging on that soft supply hose. The mobile tech comes tomorrow and I'll find out then what is leaking under there.
                          What unit do you own, RBinMcD? There might be someone here who can advise.

                          When you get a chance, check out the Welcome Letter to New Members to get the most from your time here. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/main-fo...to-new-members

                          Howard
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                          • #14
                            RBinMcD I agree with Howard, if you are comfortable installing the bidet I am sure you are comfortable enough to fix a leak. If its a 5th wheel the underside of the toilet is fairly accessible.
                            Neil Citro
                            2018 Reflection 28bh
                            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                            • #15
                              RBinMcD

                              From the VIN listed in your profile. I can see that you have an Imagine. This is going to put the connection in question under the floor . . . more complex access than a 5th wheel. Perhaps some Imagine owners will chime in here with first hand advice.

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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