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  • black tank flush hose crimped

    The black tank flush stopped working. I thought it was probably the Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker. It is located behind the shower panel, I can get to it by opening access below the shower faucets, but there is not enough room to remove and replace it. So I went looking for another way of getting to it from the basement, and found the black hose is crimped. There isn't room to work here either. I could reach in with one hand and cut the zip tie. This might be enough to allow flow, but I am concerned about the water hoses and the black tank flush hoses rubbing against the furnace. Any suggestions of how to approach this?

    thanks,
    Dave
    Click image for larger version

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    2016 Reflection 27RL
    2015 Silverado 2500HD 6L
    B&W Patriot 18k slider

  • #2
    Dave

    That is in a hard place to work for sure. I would cut the wire tie and then attach a new tie for the hot/cold lines , then loosely attach another tie to hold the flush lines. Hopefully this will hold it away from the furnace. In the spring we had a water leak at a couple fittings in the same area , a real bugger to work on in such a tight space.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

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    • #3
      Dave27 I would suggest replacing that section of soft host with pex, or at least create a sleeve with Pex that will protect the black hose from crimping.
      Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
      Nash County, NC
      2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

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      • #4
        As far as access goes, an auto mechanic friend told me a long time ago that it is far easier to remove and replace parts that are in the way than to try and work around them. Hard to tell what is blocking access in the one photo, other than a flexible duct, but start removing obstructions (maybe even pulling the furnace?) until you have the access your need. Or call a friend who has really long arms.
        John
        2018 Momentum 395M
        2018 Ram 3500 Dually
        Every day is a Saturday, but with no lawn to mow.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JBill9694 View Post
          As far as access goes, an auto mechanic friend told me a long time ago that it is far easier to remove and replace parts that are in the way than to try and work around them. Hard to tell what is blocking access in the one photo, other than a flexible duct, but start removing obstructions (maybe even pulling the furnace?) until you have the access your need. Or call a friend who has really long arms.
          I think there is some wisdom with that advice, but removing the furnace is a royal pain. I had some work done on it three or four years ago, it took a young man that had the flexibility and was small enough to get in there to reinstall the furnace. If I was going to do it, I would have to pull out the drawers in the kitchen, then cut out the wood between the drawers that are in front of the furnace. Then when I'm all done, and hopefully the furnace works properly, I would have to figure out how to replace the wood pieces and have it look nice. That is a daunting project all by itself.

          On the other hand, the space is really restricted, and I'm not sure I can do this, and even if I can I need to be careful about putting pressure on some water lines and contributing to future water leaks. I ordered some zip ties with a loop to mount with a screw. If I can install a couple of these, I should be able to do what Brian Country Campers suggested. Unless someone has a better Idea, that is my current plan. (Although a young, thin man with long arms may be a good option too.)

          Thank you for the input.
          Dave
          2016 Reflection 27RL
          2015 Silverado 2500HD 6L
          B&W Patriot 18k slider

          Comment


          • #6
            My $.02. Abandon it and use an external flush means like the Flush King.

            Click image for larger version

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            Ted
            2021 Reflection 310RLS
            2020 F350 PS,CC,LB,SRW

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave27 View Post
              The black tank flush stopped working. I thought it was probably the Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker. It is located behind the shower panel, I can get to it by opening access below the shower faucets, but there is not enough room to remove and replace it. So I went looking for another way of getting to it from the basement, and found the black hose is crimped. There isn't room to work here either. I could reach in with one hand and cut the zip tie. This might be enough to allow flow, but I am concerned about the water hoses and the black tank flush hoses rubbing against the furnace. Any suggestions of how to approach this?

              thanks,
              Dave
              Click image for larger version

Name:	black flush 1.jpg
Views:	580
Size:	94.8 KB
ID:	65463Click image for larger version

Name:	black flush 2.jpg
Views:	386
Size:	127.4 KB
ID:	65464
              From the photo you may have an issue elsewhere as I don't think it is crimped enough to totally cut off flow. You may be able to use a dowel arid and gently nudge it into the center of the bundle. I would not cut the zip tie either unless you have one of those special ones handy. I believe it is screwed into the frame member. Also to take the pressure off the bend, if there is enough slack tie it up further to the left to the red or blue pex to take the kink out.

              Hope this helps

              Keith
              2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

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              • #8
                Dave27 Dave you might invest in something like this to help https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...4534/301809042

                Not a perfect solution, but this gets you out and away while attaching the tie, then with a bit of practice and tongue technique the one handed zip tie maneuver might be possible.

                Yoda Sorry Keith more tool money we are spending for you......
                Joseph
                Tow
                Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                South of Houston Texas

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                  Dave27 Dave you might invest in something like this to help https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...4534/301809042

                  Not a perfect solution, but this gets you out and away while attaching the tie, then with a bit of practice and tongue technique the one handed zip tie maneuver might be possible.

                  Yoda Sorry Keith more tool money we are spending for you......
                  Good thing that wont work for me I cant see that far, let alone hit a small hole with a screw




                  ........now where is my Black Friday list

                  Thanks Joseph
                  2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yoda Keith have to be smarter than the zip tie, Pit screw in hole on tie first, then screw it to the frame. Work smarter not harder....
                    Joseph
                    Tow
                    Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                    Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                    South of Houston Texas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just looking it seems the line is very close to the furnace and is getting quite warm, maybe even hot. Unless it is supported in several spots farther away as suggested above it will soften again and crimp. If possible it needs to be re-routed away from the furnace regardless of material type. I would be concerned that all of those lines will get brittle from the heat over time. Perhaps an insulating shroud such as used in engine compartments could be found and installed in the area. One of those not fun projects.

                      Dave
                      flyfshrockies, 2021 imagine 2600RB, Ford F-150, XLT supper crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow. Dave and Toni (and the awesome Aussie Bayley, he's the social one)

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                      • #12
                        I was able to get the kink free, but that didn't solve the problem. I think it is probably the Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker. Since I can't get to it behind the shower, I'm thinking of rerouting it to a more accessible location, like under the bathroom sink. I have a new AVB, what size hose do I need to connect with it, and what will be the best way to splice into the old hose? I would just leave the old hose and AVB in place behind the shower. Any thoughts about this approach?
                        thanks,
                        Dave
                        2016 Reflection 27RL
                        2015 Silverado 2500HD 6L
                        B&W Patriot 18k slider

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dave27
                          Hi Dave,

                          There would be nothing wrong with cutting the lines to the existing vacuum break, leaving it where it is and installing a new one at a different location. By RVIA requirements, the vacuum break is supposed to be above the rim of the toilet, although as discussed in previous threads, with a toilet that seals closed with a ball valve, this requirement does not make a lot of sense. The vacuum break does have to be higher than the connection fitting at the water panel so that it can drain the flush line in two directions, to the tank and back out the water panel connection.

                          The connections to the device are usually designed for Pex pipe, but we know that RVIA allows soft hose to be crimped to these fittings with Pex crimp rings. A better choice would be to use barbed hose fittings for hose and Pex fittings for Pex pipe. One alternative would be to plumb the water panel connection to the new vacuum break and back with Pex pipe and crimp rings and then adapt this to the existing soft hose going down to the tank flush nozzle, using an adapter with Pex on one end and hose barb on the other.

                          In selecting a new location, remember that a vacuum break can expel a small amount of water during normal operation.

                          Rob
                          Cate & Rob
                          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                          2015 Reflection 303RLS
                          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                            Dave27
                            Hi Dave,

                            There would be nothing wrong with cutting the lines to the existing vacuum break, leaving it where it is and installing a new one at a different location. By RVIA requirements, the vacuum break is supposed to be above the rim of the toilet, although as discussed in previous threads, with a toilet that seals closed with a ball valve, this requirement does not make a lot of sense. The vacuum break does have to be higher than the connection fitting at the water panel so that it can drain the flush line in two directions, to the tank and back out the water panel connection.

                            The connections to the device are usually designed for Pex pipe, but we know that RVIA allows soft hose to be crimped to these fittings with Pex crimp rings. A better choice would be to use barbed hose fittings for hose and Pex fittings for Pex pipe. One alternative would be to plumb the water panel connection to the new vacuum break and back with Pex pipe and crimp rings and then adapt this to the existing soft hose going down to the tank flush nozzle, using an adapter with Pex on one end and hose barb on the other.

                            In selecting a new location, remember that a vacuum break can expel a small amount of water during normal operation.

                            Rob
                            Thanks Rob, as usual, this is good advice.
                            Dave
                            2016 Reflection 27RL
                            2015 Silverado 2500HD 6L
                            B&W Patriot 18k slider

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