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Living in the RV when it's freezing -- I forgot that the water filter is outside!

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  • Living in the RV when it's freezing -- I forgot that the water filter is outside!

    We're living in our RV in the Wisconsin winter while our new house is being built. I've been congratulating myself for keeping the plumbing from freezing. It seems I started celebrating a tad too early.

    Here's the part I was celebrating: The outside temp is 17 degrees F right now, but inside we're reading 77/78. See the pic of my remote/local sensing thermometers.
    Click image for larger version

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    The 17 degree sensor is outside. The 55 degree sensor is located behind the Nautilus control panel where all the plumbing lines are distributed from city water and the pump to the rest of the RV. I placed two incandescent lights in that compartment, and they keep the area between 50-55 degrees with just space heaters running in the RV living area. We haven't used the propane furnace to speak of this whole winter. (At night I direct one of the space heaters to the opening that provides ventilation between the RV cabin and the plumbing area. That's been enough to keep it just fine down below.)

    To keep outdoor hoses from freezing and to eliminate messing with heat tape on a 200' garden hose, I store the hoses in a heated area, then bring them out to fill the fresh water tank every 3-5 days and use the pump and fresh water tank for sinks, shower, and toilet. If it's above freezing during the day, I'll keep the garden hose attached and use it as "City Water".

    I thought I had all the problems licked until last week when I was filling the fresh water tank. Oh, man, it was slow to fill. I mean, it took an hour or so. Finally got the tank filled, switched to "Dry Camping" and the pump, and all was good, so I put it out of my mind.

    Until this weekend. Same slow fill. Well it was unusually warm, so I switch to "City Water". But there was almost no water pressure. Now I knew there was something wrong that I *had* to figure out and fix.

    Well, I think it dawned on me tonight. THE WATER FILTER IS LOCATED ON THE CONTROL SIDE OF THE NAUTILUS PANEL. THE WATER FILTER IS NOT HEATED.

    So I started searching and I found a thread started by SolitudeAtLast. In that thread, OffToHavasu made this comment: "Now everything goes through the filter and then on to everything else".

    That would explain why filling the fresh water tank was slow AND pressure was low when using "City Water" -- I'm suspecting that my water filter canister/filter was partially frozen.

    So here's my first attempt at a fix:
    Click image for larger version

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    Any constructive criticism out there?

    -Steve
    2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
    Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
    2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
    18k B&W Companion, non-slider
    640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
    Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
    Somerset, WI

  • #2
    steve&renee Steve, no criticism on the light trick (I have 2 lights in the softener house to keep it from freezing and insulated the walls). You may try an infrared light as they do tend to produce more heat. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-bulbs-1227912 I will note that the water flow should have increased over time while filling. After Harvey while "living" in the camper in the driveway during construction, we got SNOW south of Houston and my water hoses froze. Between the air and heat gun, once I got any movement of air then water through the hose, it only took a few minutes for the ground water (approx 65F) to thaw out the rest of the hose to get full flow.

    You may need to insulate the hose with temps that low, but any water flow should eventually melt the ice in the filter.
    Joseph
    Tow
    Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
    Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
    South of Houston Texas

    Comment


    • #3
      If it were me, I'd buy a length of 120v heat trace and wrap what you need heated. 4w/ft would probably do and then wrap it with some type of insulation blanket.
      2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
      Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

      Comment


      • #4
        steve&renee

        If the furnace is needed during a severe cold spell, don't forget that the available BTUs from a propane cylinder drops significantly as the temperature drops. The effect is you'll "run out of propane". What's actually happening is the cylinder stops creating vapor even when it is not empty.

        The solution? Consider rigging up something that can be turned on to keep the cylinders (relatively) warm should that furnace be needed.

        Pic below is a representation showing overall pressure (spared posting the numbers...lots of them on the 'net if you're curious) and was found via a DuckDuckGo search at https://www.rverscorner.com/images/propanepressure.jpg


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        Stay warm!

        Howard
        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

        Comment


        • #5
          howson

          What we call "Propane" is more correctly called LPG (liquified petroleum gas) which is typically a blend of propane and butane. This blend is adjusted by the supplier based on expected ambient temperatures. In warmer climates, the percentage of butane is increased to limit the maximum vapour pressure in the tank. In colder climates, the percentage of propane is increased to increase vapour pressure at lower temperatures. Where folks get into difficulty is if they fill their tanks in the summer in the southern US and then travel north or there is an unexpected cold snap, the predominately butane contents of their LPG tank can approach zero vapour pressure.

          For example, a 30% Propane 70% Butane mixture would reach zero vapour pressure at about 0F. 100% propane retains sufficient vapour pressure to run appliances down to -35F (as shown in the graph that you posted). Camping in an RV at -35F would be a challenge! The solution to this is the "fill your LPG tanks close to where you will be camping . . . not where you came from." Of course . . . this won't help in a Texas type cold snap with tanks filled for normal Texas ambient temperatures. Warming the tank might be the only choice . . . but, this would take extreme caution.

          See attached Propane vs Butane vapour pressure curves.

          Rob



          Attached Files
          Cate & Rob
          (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
          2015 Reflection 303RLS
          2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
          Bayham, Ontario, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Steve,

            There's a heater duct outlet in the utility compartment (where the filter is) of our 2020 310GK... is that something they added after your 2018 model came off the line? We weathered low teens in Aberdeen, MD, last year and never had a problem with the filter and regulator inside the utility compartment.

            Rob
            Rob & Laura
            U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
            2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
            2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
            (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
            Full time since 08/2015

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              howson

              What we call "Propane" is more correctly called LPG (liquified petroleum gas) which is typically a blend of propane and butane. This blend is adjusted by the supplier based on expected ambient temperatures. In warmer climates, the percentage of butane is increased to limit the maximum vapour pressure in the tank. In colder climates, the percentage of propane is increased to increase vapour pressure at lower temperatures. Where folks get into difficulty is if they fill their tanks in the summer in the southern US and then travel north or there is an unexpected cold snap, the predominately butane contents of their LPG tank can approach zero vapour pressure.

              For example, a 30% Propane 70% Butane mixture would reach zero vapour pressure at about 0F. 100% propane retains sufficient vapour pressure to run appliances down to -35F (as shown in the graph that you posted). Camping in an RV at -35F would be a challenge! The solution to this is the "fill your LPG tanks close to where you will be camping . . . not where you came from." Of course . . . this won't help in a Texas type cold snap with tanks filled for normal Texas ambient temperatures. Warming the tank might be the only choice . . . but, this would take extreme caution.

              See attached Propane vs Butane vapour pressure curves.

              Rob


              Exactly. The two "truisms" from the RV class...

              Click image for larger version

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              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Second Chance View Post
                Steve,

                There's a heater duct outlet in the utility compartment (where the filter is) of our 2020 310GK... is that something they added after your 2018 model came off the line? We weathered low teens in Aberdeen, MD, last year and never had a problem with the filter and regulator inside the utility compartment.

                Rob
                Hmm. There IS a vent.Thanks for the info.

                I need to verify that it's hooked up, but it's there. If it's hooked up, could be that I've been using space heaters instead of the propane furnace, so no air was being forced to the Nautilus front compartment. I'll report back after I check it out. For now, I'm busy trouble-shooting my battery bank heater. It was keeping the battery bank mid-forty's and above. Got down to 13 degrees F last night and the battery bank sensor was reading 30. The BMS shuts down charging at around 35. . .

                -Steve
                2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
                Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
                2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
                18k B&W Companion, non-slider
                640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
                Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
                Somerset, WI

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by steve&renee View Post

                  Hmm. There IS a vent.Thanks for the info.

                  I need to verify that it's hooked up, but it's there. If it's hooked up, could be that I've been using space heaters instead of the propane furnace, so no air was being forced to the Nautilus front compartment. I'll report back after I check it out. For now, I'm busy trouble-shooting my battery bank heater. It was keeping the battery bank mid-forty's and above. Got down to 13 degrees F last night and the battery bank sensor was reading 30. The BMS shuts down charging at around 35. . .

                  -Steve
                  If you're using the fireplace and space heaters, that could very well be your problem.

                  Rob
                  Rob & Laura
                  U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
                  2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
                  2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
                  (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
                  Full time since 08/2015

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you're going to put a heat lamp in the compartment, try a ceramic reptile heater.
                    No filaments to burn out and no light. I've had the same ones for years.
                    I use them in the engine compartment of the boat. (it stays in water during winter)
                    Bulbs seem to burn out at the most inopportune time.
                    Not these but similar:

                    https://www.amazon.com/BOEESPAT-Ligh...IGHT_BULB&th=1
                    2021 Momentum 25G
                    2018 Ram 2500 Laramie Longhorn
                    2009 Honda VTX 1300T

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Running the furnace at least at some capacity will solve the issues with freezing. A skirt could also help in extreme cold along with some LPG heating. There have been countless fires with incandescent lights and heaters placed in unattended spaces. Monitoring is a great idea.

                      Jim
                      Last edited by Guest; 11-27-2021, 11:31 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I literally just joined this forum and already learned quite a bit about Propane and Butane mixture. Now all those time My gas grill wouldn’t fire up in the winter, Now I know why. Geeeze. Thank you folks!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kenny2k View Post
                          I literally just joined this forum and already learned quite a bit about Propane and Butane mixture. Now all those time My gas grill wouldn’t fire up in the winter, Now I know why. Geeeze. Thank you folks!
                          Stick around. Lots of smart people here.
                          2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                          Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

                            If you're using the fireplace and space heaters, that could very well be your problem.I

                            Rob
                            I found the problem. I've been filling my fresh water tank and (when it's warm enough) using "city water" -- both paths go thru the filter. My water source is a new, just-dug well that will supply water to the new house we're building. When I opened the filter canister to examine the filter, I found the canister and filter clogged with sand from the well!

                            Removed the filter and washed out the canister, hooked it all back up, and now I've got normal water flow. My spare filters are packed away in storage. I've ordered more. I'll be changing them out frequently until the sand settles in the well. . .

                            -Steve
                            2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
                            Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
                            2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
                            18k B&W Companion, non-slider
                            640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
                            Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
                            Somerset, WI

                            Comment

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