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  • #16
    Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
    Mbopp has posted the correct method for lubrication...
    Jim,
    That video is six years old. As I've already stated, when the moderators were at Grand Design for a summit we had a training session with a Lippert representative. He told us no lubrication. I even jotted it down in my notes from the session:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	notes.JPG Views:	0 Size:	40.8 KB ID:	15614

    Not only was that video created for a Winnebago Class A's slide to suppress a rattle (the "back story"), the Schwintek has undergone significant redesign, most notably to shed water better.

    Fellow moderators--help me out here--am I remembering wrong or am I accurately stating what we were told?

    TucsonJim
    Cate&Rob
    Country Campers

    --break--

    GDRV-Megan -- hope when you check in on Monday that between your Lippert & GD connections you can provide definitive guidance as there seems to be a lot of confusion among the owners, including me!

    Howard
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #17
      I do recall the Lippert Rep discussing the "no lube needed" on the Schwintek slides in a towable RV. I do not recall if he said "no lube at all" or "there is no need to lube". The back story on the lubrication of the Schwintek slide comes from a complaint from a motor home driver , the slide was rattling while driving and they recommended the dry lube to stop the rattle in which it did. Out side of the Rep's words , however they were stated , I see no reason why an owner could lube this same point on a towable RV. If a dry lube is used , one that will not collect dirt or debris , and the lube is applied sparingly , then in my opinion it should be ok. I have lubed mine about twice a year with a minimal amount , just a little squirt , and have seen no issues or change in how the slide operates. I have however , back to the subject at hand , found that if the battery is not up to par the slides are all slow and have to work hard to move. I do not try to operate slides with just the battery , if I can , and the jacks as well. These items eat up a lot of battery power and will deplete the battery amps available rather quickly , from the stock deep cycle battery. I have noticed how much better the slides work when on shore power and a well charged battery. The other possibility may be that the converter/charger may be weak or not performing properly. Some testing would be required to figure this out. I would check as much as I could before tearing into the motors on the slide.

      Brian
      Brian & Michelle
      2018 Reflection 29RS
      2022 Chevy 3500HD

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      • #18
        howson Howard is not crazy . . . I was just in the midst of writing this when I saw post 16!

        While I use the CRC lubricant with PTFE for many things on the RV (Polytetrafluoroethylene is the generic name for what we all used to call Teflon) I do not use it on the Schwintek mechanism. I was told not to do this at a Rally LCI Tech Session about 5 years ago.

        I believe it was my question at the LCI Training for Forum Moderators (that Howard referenced earlier) that brought out the back story of why the video of how to lubricate this drive came about. Note that the technician is working on a Class A motorhome. BTW, the advice that Howard has described, occurred in conjunction with a visit to the Schwintek assembly line at the LCI manufacturing facility.

        If lubrication is used sparingly as described, it dries completely and will probably do no harm. According to LCI, the materials used are self-lubricating and do no need anything further. Their biggest concern is a lubricant that will attract and hold grit that would be damaging to the drive mechanism.

        If a slide is binding. I would look for causes other than this drive mechanism. Excessive drag from slide seals? Misaligned drive track? Damaged slide rollers?

        Rob
        Last edited by Cate&Rob; 03-29-2020, 10:11 AM.
        Cate & Rob
        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
        2015 Reflection 303RLS
        2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
        Bayham, Ontario, Canada

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by howson View Post

          Jim,
          That video is six years old. As I've already stated, when the moderators were at Grand Design for a summit we had a training session with a Lippert representative. He told us no lubrication. I even jotted it down in my notes from the session:

          Click image for larger version Name:	notes.JPG Views:	0 Size:	40.8 KB ID:	15614

          Not only was that video created for a Winnebago Class A's slide to suppress a rattle (the "back story"), the Schwintek has undergone significant redesign, most notably to shed water better.


          Fellow moderators--help me out here--am I remembering wrong or am I accurately stating what we were told?

          TucsonJim
          Cate&Rob
          Country Campers

          --break--

          GDRV-Megan -- hope when you check in on Monday that between your Lippert & GD connections you can provide definitive guidance as there seems to be a lot of confusion among the owners, including me!

          Howard
          Howard,

          The video that Mbopp has posted is from Lippert. I know how this works BECAUSE I HAD THIS ISSUE!!! As with most people from Lippert, you get a different answer from each person you speak with. If Lippert does not support the video they should pull it. Once the bearing block and gib is lubricated with the correct CRC with PTFE the results are remarkable at how much faster the slide will operate. Also if the encoder has failed on one side, you want to try to bypass since the synchronization will not be correct since it CANNOT LEARN. As me how I know being in controls for over 20 years and working with encoders. If any severe binding is noticed while on override the button should be released. Some common sense does come into play here.

          If there is no binding and the operation is slow, voltage levels should be checked first.

          See page 7 below but note: This is listed as a dealer option.

          https://www.granddesignrv.com/sites/...ting-Guide.pdf

          From thor but helpful to understand trouble codes.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dIQp0h97xY

          Jim
          Last edited by Guest; 03-29-2020, 10:50 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
            If Lippert does not support the video they should pull it.
            Good point. I'll ask them why it's still up on their Youtube channel. I'll let you (and everyone else) know what they say.

            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mbopp View Post
              As far as slide lubrication, here's the video I'm going by:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KbVRFMo1Rg

              And I'll be doing a few voltage drop checks.
              mbopp - when checking your voltages trace back the power wire for the controller. I may not be correct on this, but I think its get power from an auto reset breaker on the buss bar that is in the front bay in my unit powered directly from the battery. What I am trying to get at is check the primary connection for being loose or corrosion. Also this power comes direct from the battery, so if you have a bad battery, the voltage here may be less than at your converter, or there could be a major voltage/current droop when pulling the high amps that the slide does. I don't think the converter puts out that much power so when running the slide the main power comes from the battery. I will admit I could be wrong on this.

              Hopefully someone with better understanding on wiring and voltage will chime in.

              2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

              Comment


              • #22
                Here's what I just sent to LCI Customer Service. I hope they respond here themselves but if not I'll copy and paste their response.

                LCI,
                I am a moderator on Grand Design's Technical Forum. Last fall GD hosted a summit for me and my fellow moderators. Late in the week an LCI representative came to the GD factory for a training session with us. One note I made was his comment that no lubrication is needed, required, or recommended anywhere on the Schwintek slide mechanism.

                However, the video posted by LCI from 2014 is still up on YouTube. Many Grand Design owners reference that video when stating that lubrication is necessary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KbVRFMo1Rg

                1) What is LCI's current guidance on lubricating any part of the Schwintek in-wall slide, including the rails, rollers, and gears?

                2) If the video is no longer applicable or accurate, why is it still up on your YouTube channel?

                Megan Gunn, our GD rep on the Tech Channel, is cc'd as she was "tagged" in the thread that is ongoing on the technical forum. A direct response from LCI on the forum in the thread would be fantastic, so it is not me (or Megan) copying and pasting your response to this email into the forum.

                The thread is here: Schwintek Slide Straining - Grand Design Owners Forums

                Thanks in advance for your attention to this matter.
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #23
                  Attached below you will find Lippert's Technical Instruction #169 which is a trouble-shooting flow chart for the in-wall slide out. A couple of items to check that have not been mentioned above:

                  1. Check for debris in the tracks.
                  2. Look for items such as slide seals and carpet which may be interfering with smooth operation of the slide out.

                  Also - Make sure that you have not placed excessive cargo/weight on the slide out which will cause the motors to bog down, draw excessive electrical current and slow down their operation.

                  https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0002071.pdf

                  Jim
                  Jim and Ginnie
                  2024 Solitude 310GK
                  GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                  GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Here is a link to the LCI site with ALL videos on the Schwintek in-wall slide out.

                    https://support.lci1.com/in-wall-slide-out

                    Howard when inquiring with LCI please refer to lubricating the bearing block, coupler and Gib. The LCI video actually only states to lube the coupler and gib, but when doing this the bearing block will also become lubricated.

                    Jim

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                    • #25
                      I hope this conversation hasn't strayed so far that my .02 regarding lubricating a Schwintek has distracted from mbopp's issue. If so, I apologize! My intent was to emphasize troubleshooting other causes for the (apparent) binding. I may have lost focus there for a bit.

                      While we're waiting for Lippert's response regarding the Schwintek, I'll also go on record as stating that I don't always follow a manufacturer's directions. For example, the powered stabilizers aren't supposed to be lubricated but I clean them and then lightly lubricate with CRC. I then wipe them down to ensure they are clean and free of any residue. Country Campers and Cate&Rob's ascertain that a light spray of CRC on the Schwintek mechanisms (but not the motor!) won't hurt anything is accurate.

                      So back to the problem at hand. What I don't see from this thread is if it's the street or curb side slide that is giving him the trouble. A previous post states "larger slide" so I assume it's the street side (refrigerator) slide. I'd really like to know the voltage measurement results under load with the converter off--that will be go a long way to isolating if it is mechanical or electrical.

                      Imagine 2650RK
                      Click image for larger version

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                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        As per the manual Schwintek slides don’t need lubricating.

                        Yes, there is a video showing how to lube and what to lube, BUT according to the instructors at the LCI Technical Training Center this video is intended for motorhomes, not towables. The sole purpose of the lubrication is to prevent squeaking that would and does irritate the heck out of the occupants of a motorhome when traveling. Not an issue for a towable. Will lubing per the instructional video hurt? No. Will it help? Probably not.

                        Colan Arnold
                        2016 Momentum 397TH
                        Full time since 2016

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by colan View Post
                          As per the manual Schwintek slides don’t need lubricating.

                          Yes, there is a video showing how to lube and what to lube, BUT according to the instructors at the LCI Technical Training Center this video is intended for motorhomes, not towables. The sole purpose of the lubrication is to prevent squeaking that would and does irritate the heck out of the occupants of a motorhome when traveling. Not an issue for a towable. Will lubing per the instructional video hurt? No. Will it help? Probably not.
                          It will be interesting to get Lippert's feedback on their video that illustrates how to lube the slide as apposed to their training sessions that state it's not needed. On their site, just because a motorhome can be seen in the background does not mean they are excluding trailers, since the site is for "In Wall Slide Outs". Once the Gib and coupler is lubed based on their video, the increase in speed (reduced friction) can clearly be seen when moving the slide in or out. Sad that LCI cannot be consistent on their recommendations.

                          When I had the binding issue, the slide would operated slowly then it would bind and shut down intermittently. This was due to a bad motor/encoder on one side where the controller could not count the edges of the target wheel in the motor via hall sensor. As a result, the slide could not remain in sync. When overriding, both motors receive full voltage to overcome this issue. But this is a temporary solution where travel can be possible if this issue occurs at a campsite. The result after having multiple issues was to replace the right side motor where its internal encoder was defective.

                          Since that time, I always extend the slide while connected to the pedestal or while connected to the truck via the trailer connector. This method results in higher speeds on the slide where voltage levels remain high and current and heating of the motors low.


                          https://support.lci1.com/in-wall-slide-out

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Coming from my past experience, you can use a dry lube (CRC - green can) to lube your Schwintek slide. If you're full timing in your unit and use your slides often, you may want to lube the slides a couple times a year. There isn't a REAL NEED to lubricate the slides, it just helps with keeping the moving parts in working condition.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by swmurray View Post
                              Here is page 159 from our 310GK-R manual regarding Schwintek maintenance. This applies to our bedroom Schwintek In-Wall Slide. Note: LCI video does not show lubing the track, just the parts around the rollers and shaft around the gearing. So I am not sure which is correct.

                              Our manual also has a section on other LCI electric slides (for the S-Class models) which do not seem to apply in our unit. This section states "lubrication is NOT necessary". So I think the OP should verify the slide type as suggested above.


                              Click image for larger version Name:	310GK Manual-p159 - Schintek Maintenance.JPG Views:	0 Size:	88.5 KB ID:	15595
                              Good afternoon!

                              I wanted to let you know that we are currently looking in to this in regard to your manual. GDRV-Megan is correct. You can use a PTFE dry lube (CRC in the green can) to lubricate the slideout, but it should be lubricated at the V-Roller, which is the small white nylon roller behind the seal, on both the top and the bottom. I believe that the only maintenance that should be done to the rails themselves is to wash them clean (warm water and a mild dish detergent, plus a small scrub brush like a fingernail brush), then rinse them with clean water, allow them to dry. Spraying the racks can cause debris to become attached, if using the wrong lubricant, and cause damage.

                              Again, since this info that I have provided differs from the manual, we will be sure to get this to our publications team to see where this info came from.

                              Thank you everyone!

                              Cate&Rob howson Guest colan TucsonJim

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                              • #30
                                mbopp also... I see where you were talking about your battery voltage. Any LCI system runs completely on battery and does NOT take in to consideration shore power. If for some reason the battery cannot hold a strong 12V power under load when unplugged, this could be the problem. I would suggest running a test. Unplug from shore power. Let it sit for about 10-15 minutes. Put a reader on the battery (or if you have a second person to help, have them do one of these or the other) then go to the switch and run the slide in. If it is dragging, stopping and starting, or having problems.... see what that battery is reading. All LCI products need a strong 12v power. Especially when you are working with a hall system/signal like the schwintek system. Hope this helps!

                                Do you hear any creaking, popping, cracking? What do the rails look like? Any metal shavings in the tracks?

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