Schwintek Drive Shaft Broken, or sheared GIB?

[d2reid]

I have 3 Schwintek slides so that means I have 6 motors. In 4 years I have had 3 motor failures. So when my slide would only wiggle one side I said aha, another Schwintek slide motor failure. I am $300 wrong. And of course you know what happens when you ASSuMe things. Found a mobile tech, told him I had a motor failure please replace it. He did, but when we tested it the slide still did not work. Of course I ordered a motor replacement and he performed the work so I got to pay for that, it's ok, I needed another standby motor anyway.

The new motor would spin, but the slide would not slide. He thinks the drive shaft has broken, or possibly sheared off. Of course the only way you can really tell is to pull the whole rack out. Best way to do that is to pull the slide out. A little bigger job than just replacing a motor. Also something better done in a shop as the slide may have to be removed. The tech says it's possible to replace the rack without taking the slide out. Bigger job than I will tackle myself.

I talked with LCI tech support before getting the mobile tech. One of the interesting things I was told was that the slide could easily be pushed because the slide motor has a brake built into it, when power is applied the brake is released and the slide can now easily be pushed.

The sliding without much resistance was a big clue. Other dead motor sliding I have done was a big struggle. I took the motor brake information with a grain of salt and did not make a fuss about it. In talking with the tech he kind of doubted the brake/release information also. It could be true... or not.

Another clue to the problem was there were no error codes on the control board. When activated it would do the green/red blinky thing just like it was operating normally, but the left side would not move. I didn't even get an out of sync error.

For now I can slide by pushing on the bad side while DW operates the motor controller. The reasons this is important is because we are in roving mode and not scheduled to be sitting for more than a few days. We may continue our plans. Well shoot, why not just get it fixed?

Now for some more fun news. When the tech went to find replacement parts he was told that the 2017 Momentum 376TH series used a special order slide rail system that is not off the shelf. It is unique to these GD models. If inventory cannot be found the parts will have to be re-manufactured. I tend to believe this because when I replaced my big picture window LCI had to go back to the people they contracted to build the windows to make a replacement from scratch. While mostly people don't want to hear this and cannot understand how this system works because it isn't very efficient nor sustainable I kind of get it, welcome to the world of RV manufacturing, it doesn't quite meet up with other manufacturing processes, it's got it's quirks. We may be able to get the parts in a week, or it might be next year.

I am going back into the docs tonight and tomorrow to study the system a little better. I cannot imagine shearing/braking that drive shaft. Even if it's broken/sheared perhaps the top part would work. I can't think of any way to diagnose until the parts are out. When I looked at pictures this afternoon I found a part labeled "GIB". It appeared to have rivets on it. I couldn't quite tell how the Gib fit and worked from the picture, but I have a lot of experience with sheared rivets. I am thinking it might have been possible for those rivets to give out and let the shaft free spin without any traction on the gear. This is only a guess on my part, I need more information.

Hopefully howson 's recent education will shed some light on what may "possibly" be broken.

[howson]

d2reid

I'd eliminate the controller and wiring harness as a possibility before diving into removing the rack.

Double-check the voltage and ground going into the controller to ensure they are correct.

Did you happen to get the exact part/model # of the new motor recorded before it was installed? Long shot, but what I'm thinking is the new motor isn't compatible with the old motor on the other side or even the (old) controller. All that speculation would have to be confirmed by a phone call with Lippert (armed with all the pertinent information).

My RV Works has a comprehensive video on the topic of isolating to the controller or wiring harness. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxEYSstvICI

I'll take a closer look at the rack today at school and will update this thread sometime during lunch.

Howard

Edit: Thought about it some more while getting ready for school. The reason the "red/green blinky" is still working is because the Hall Effect ( literally a counter ) is internal to the motor. If the motor is spinning the controller thinks the room is moving.

The drive shaft could be broken immediately below the coupler, above the top drive gear. Based on the symptoms I'd guess right where the coupler and top gear meet. If it was broken further down the shaft the top of the room would still try to move.

[RJAPCOK]

d2reid Obviously, troubleshooting something like this over the internet is guesswork at best. However, based upon my understanding of what you are experiencing, my guess would be a failed coupler between the motor and the shaft. In case you are unaware, Lippert has a pretty good technical program that covers Schwintech slide outs. I am attaching a couple of pdf files from that program. The first one is a Troubleshooting flow-chart and the second one is somewhat of a repair manual. I hope you find these useful and helpful!

Bob

[d2reid]

[USER="2234"]
The drive shaft could be broken immediately below the coupler,

This was the diagnosis of the mobile tech, he also reached out a couple of times to his boss and GD but I didn't get to hear the conversations.


Motor would spin so it was assumed that controller and harness worked. Reverse the wires from the controller and the working side worked backwards.

The box has a serial number on it, I will attempt to follow up on compatibility.

[d2reid]

d2reid Obviously, troubleshooting something like this over the internet is guesswork at best. However, based upon my understanding of what you are experiencing, my guess would be a failed coupler between the motor and the shaft. In case you are unaware, Lippert has a pretty good technical program that covers Schwintech slide outs. I am attaching a couple of pdf files from that program. The first one is a Troubleshooting flow-chart and the second one is somewhat of a repair manual. I hope you find these useful and helpful!

Bob

Thanks, some light reading for tonight.

[d2reid]

Watching more videos, it appears that at the end of the drive shaft there is a piece that fits into a sleeve that the motor shaft slides into. It that piece strips off the shaft, it doesn't turn.

My tech called me and GD had replacement parts, they are enroute, we scheduled the repair for next Tuesday.

[howson]

This was the diagnosis of the mobile tech, he also reached out a couple of times to his boss and GD but I didn't get to hear the conversations.

Consensus of the class is the drive shaft. Some suggested it could be stripped versus broken where the drive shaft goes into the coupler.

Theoretically the bad side of the Schwintek can be unsecured from the slide and the entire mechanism removed without removing the slide. If it is the coupler that's bad that should be a generic part. If it's the drive shaft...the length is probably specific to your custom setup.

If it does come all apart, make sure new shoes are installed, too, as they are a wear item.

[colan]

The entire schwintek system can be replaced without pulling the slide. Done it several times. It isn’t hard, just one of those things that the first time is a little intimidating. If you would like details or to discuss let me know.

[d2reid]

howson


and

@ colan

Ok, the @ thing was a little wonky....

Any way my tech said the basically the same thing, drive shaft (or that little part at the top) and it can be replaced without removing the slide. The tricky part is going to be supporting the slide that is pretty high, the bottom is eye level.

I am cutting a 4x4 to put over the slide after I pull it in to keep it from creeping out.

Now to wait on parts....

[colan]

Supporting the slide is fairly easy. First the process to support and then why it works:

1. Remove and service one side at a time.

2. Partially extend the slide to allow access to all of the screws holding the racks to the slide walls.

3. The support requires minimal equipment and material. Floor or bottle jack and one or two 2 X 4s. Cut a 2 X 4 almost long enough to fit on a jack and reach the bottom of the slide. A more sophisticated approach is to make a T, or a 4 X 4.

The purpose of this is keep the slide from tipping. It isn’t to lift the slide. Having said that a few times I’ve had to lift the slide by about 1/16 to an 1/8 to get the H column in or out. In other words support rather than lifting is the goal.

4. From another 2 X 4 or leftover from step 3, cut a piece to fit between the outside top of the slide and the coach wall. This is to stop the slide from tilting in.

The reason that a substantial system for holding the slide isn’t required is the schwintek system is responsible for moving the slide in and out. The bottom rollers and facia are the supporting and retaining system.

[howson]

d2reid -- awesome that colan provided his hands-on experience to this thread! I look forward to reading the resolution and, of course, pics of whatever you find broken.

[Guest]

howson


and

@ colan

Ok, the @ thing was a little wonky....

Any way my tech said the basically the same thing, drive shaft (or that little part at the top) and it can be replaced without removing the slide. The tricky part is going to be supporting the slide that is pretty high, the bottom is eye level.

I am cutting a 4x4 to put over the slide after I pull it in to keep it from creeping out.

Now to wait on parts....

I'm betting on a coupler where replacement is similar to replacing a motor except you need to pluck out the coupler with a strong magnet or something like needle nose pliers operated in reverse. If the tab on the end of the shaft is broken, the slide mechanism must be removed. If its a coupler, this would reinforce the reasons to keep this area lubricated since the coupler is steel where the housing is aluminum.
Really enjoy your humor Dallas.

Jim

[DarnDave]

Supporting the slide is fairly easy. First the process to support and then why it works:

1. Remove and service one side at a time.

2. Partially extend the slide to allow access to all of the screws holding the racks to the slide walls.

3. The support requires minimal equipment and material. Floor or bottle jack and one or two 2 X 4s. Cut a 2 X 4 almost long enough to fit on a jack and reach the bottom of the slide. A more sophisticated approach is to make a T, or a 4 X 4.

The purpose of this is keep the slide from tipping. It isn’t to lift the slide. Having said that a few times I’ve had to lift the slide by about 1/16 to an 1/8 to get the H column in or out. In other words support rather than lifting is the goal.

4. From another 2 X 4 or leftover from step 3, cut a piece to fit between the outside top of the slide and the coach wall. This is to stop the slide from tilting in.

The reason that a substantial system for holding the slide isn’t required is the schwintek system is responsible for moving the slide in and out. The bottom rollers and facia are the supporting and retaining system.

That last line got my attention. I would agree that what you wrote would make sense. But it depends on who you ask. Would be nice to have a definitive (like in writing in a service manual) answer to that. My dealer swears that the bottom rollers are merely "guides" and not load bearing, and that all of the load is supported by the v-rollers in Howard's photo, above. I have seen SOB units that have two racks stacked on top of each other at the top of slides, and at the bottom. Not sure I believe the dealer, and they are the ones performing the work on my still open case # which involves replacing the entire mechanism on both of my kitchen slides. One has arrived; the other has not.

[TedS]

See page 13, installation manual. Rollers support the slide. ccd-0001397.pdf

I suspect the v-roller keeps the gear engaged with the rack and does not support the slide.

[Country Campers]

The Schwintek system, motor, guides, v-rollers, do not support the slide, the system is only installed to move the slide out and in. I had asked a question to Grand Design on another issue and this was part of the answer.

Brian