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Schwintek Drive Shaft Broken, or sheared GIB?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DarnDave View Post
    My dealer swears that the bottom rollers are merely "guides" and not load bearing, and that all of the load is supported by the v-rollers...
    Your dealer is misinformed. If they don't believe that response, suggest they call Lippert.

    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    Howard, 2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DarnDave View Post
      My dealer swears that the bottom rollers are merely "guides" and not load bearing,
      You really have to be careful of who you talk with at dealerships. Talking with the people that actually do the work is best. But most of the time they are buried under a layer of other people who have more time on their hands.

      When a tire chain broke while going over a snowy pass it took out the trim over the wheel. Just plastic so no big deal. I went on the GD parts site to get the correct part number, I even called GD, they had me do some very specific measurements to determine the correct part. Then I called my dealer to order the part. Parts lady was very nice and put the order in. About an hour later one of the salesmen called me and told me I was ordering the wrong part.

      I was so shocked I couldn't get my jaw up off the floor in time to make a witty remark. I thanked him for taking the time to reach out but told him I would stick with the part number that GD had given me. After installing it the one I got looks ok to me. Even the wife said it looked ok, she usually can find something wrong when I "fix" things.

      2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
      2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
      Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

      Comment


      • #18
        Well in my mind, that settles that. Thank you for the last few comments. I agree with all that was posted here. At least it is the service advisor giving me the wrong info, and not the technician.
        Dave and Darren
        2015 Chevrolet 3500 CC duramax SB SRW, pullrite 2400, timbrens
        2021 Solitude 390 RK-R (3 A/C, solar, gen, 8K axles), comfort ride shocks, VIN 03584
        Max and Riley, our chihuahua/tasmanian devil furbabies

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        • #19




          Ok, you have to love a goose chase once in a while.

          My tech gave me a GD part number of 550293 -LCI part number V000412585. Cool, so I called GD to verify via my vin and was told 550293 had been replaced by 550325 - LCI V000506345. Only the dealer could order the part. I asked if they were in stock and was told that no, it would have to be ordered. Ok, I have been down this path before so I called LCI.

          I gave the nice LCI lady the new 550325 - LCI V000506345 number and asked her if that was correct. She told me she could not verify the number for my specific unit, by chance did I have the label information...

          Duh, should have started here. So I slid the slide in enough to find the label. The LCIV000412585 and LCI V000506345 have different "notch" sizes. Which is correct? The "new" number I got from GD or the number my tech had.

          After providing my the LCI lady with the label information my tech wins. V000412585 is the correct part based on the original label information of V000272025. Now the fun part, the numbers on the top of the label have have a designator of CL - 1.75, apparently that is my notch size.

          She also told me there was a repair kit. However the repair kit does not contain the torque shaft. So if the torque shaft is broken/stripped the $368 repair kit would not fix it. The replacement slide out assembly will cost around $900. It's still up in the air if that is both side or just one, I am thinking just one because the label has a designator of RH (right hand?) on it.

          The nice LCI lady told me that the part is not in stock and would have to be made. It would take 4 - 6 weeks to the part plus shipping time. I cringed just a bit because those were the same words I got when I ordered my window replacement. I was thinking I should get the tech to pull the assembly to see exactly what was broken and just order the broken parts. I ran that idea through the LCI lady and it was a no go, they sell the repair kit, and they sell the assembly, can't get pieces.

          For now I can slide, I use a 4x4 on the top of the slide to lock it in/out. Order now, or wait. Right now I am awaiting confirmation that my tech got his order cancelled without penalty. I don't want to leave him with a $900 part he can't use, wouldn't be fair. I asked LCI about returning the part if I got the incorrect one, she said no because it would be a special order not a standard inventory order.

          So my behind the scenes take on all of this was that GD did not have the slide assembly in stock, they would have to order it, and of course they would order it from LCI. LCI in the mean time does not have the assembly in stock, so they would request a replacement be built by their supplier. But nobody wants to admit this. It's no wonder that dealers have irritated customers when they tell them they are waiting on parts, they really are.

          Now for the lighter side; the LCI lady kept saying I would have to "replace the whole slide", I couldn't replace just broken parts. I am thinking the entire slide box, wow, what chore that would be. I finally asked her to clarify the "whole slide", did she mean the "slide assembly", well yah, what did I think she was talking about. I am used to this type of conversation, my wife and I do this all the time. But I had a very worried face for a few minutes.




          Click image for larger version

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Views:	83
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	70651 .
          2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
          2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
          Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

          Comment


          • #20
            d2reid Dallas,

            If the shaft is broken, you may be able to have a machine shop make one for you. Still not an easy solution but could shorten the wait time.

            Jim
            2017 Imagine 2600RB
            2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

            Comment


            • #21
              d2reid

              ​​​​​​​First I agree with Jim that this could probably be fixed by a machine shop, a new connection welded onto the end of the shaft to connect to the motor if that is where the issue is ( I would do this for sure but I have the equipment).

              Second, If they changed the spacing between the notches where the gear teeth engage the rail to move the slide I wonder if the speed would match the other side?, if not then you would have to replace both sides so they match in movement.

              Third, LCI makes all of the parts of the Schwintec slide right there in Indiana, I toured the factory once and seen how they make them, so they should have either stock or some kind of replacement parts available, the torque shaft is probably the same used across many of these systems , they probably just dont want to deal with a single part and rather sell a whole unit.

              Fourth, One day I hope to sit in your presents and enjoy the trials and tribulations that you go thru from day to day (you sure seem to have lots of fun)

              Brian
              Brian & Michelle
              2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
              2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DarnDave View Post

                That last line got my attention. I would agree that what you wrote would make sense. But it depends on who you ask. Would be nice to have a definitive (like in writing in a service manual) answer to that. My dealer swears that the bottom rollers are merely "guides" and not load bearing, and that all of the load is supported by the v-rollers in Howard's photo, above. I have seen SOB units that have two racks stacked on top of each other at the top of slides, and at the bottom. Not sure I believe the dealer, and they are the ones performing the work on my still open case # which involves replacing the entire mechanism on both of my kitchen slides. One has arrived; the other has not.
                The image below is from a Lippert Schwintek class. About your dealership and the rollers are guides, my guess is someone is confusing the V rollers positioned just below the racks with the rollers underneath the slide. The V rollers are guides, the rollers underneath the slide are weight bearing.

                Attached Files
                Colan Arnold
                2016 Momentum 397TH
                Full time since 2016

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by d2reid View Post



                  Ok, you have to love a goose chase once in a while.

                  My tech gave me a GD part number of 550293 -LCI part number V000412585. Cool, so I called GD to verify via my vin and was told 550293 had been replaced by 550325 - LCI V000506345. Only the dealer could order the part. I asked if they were in stock and was told that no, it would have to be ordered. Ok, I have been down this path before so I called LCI.

                  I gave the nice LCI lady the new 550325 - LCI V000506345 number and asked her if that was correct. She told me she could not verify the number for my specific unit, by chance did I have the label information...

                  Duh, should have started here. So I slid the slide in enough to find the label. The LCIV000412585 and LCI V000506345 have different "notch" sizes. Which is correct? The "new" number I got from GD or the number my tech had.

                  After providing my the LCI lady with the label information my tech wins. V000412585 is the correct part based on the original label information of V000272025. Now the fun part, the numbers on the top of the label have have a designator of CL - 1.75, apparently that is my notch size.

                  She also told me there was a repair kit. However the repair kit does not contain the torque shaft. So if the torque shaft is broken/stripped the $368 repair kit would not fix it. The replacement slide out assembly will cost around $900. It's still up in the air if that is both side or just one, I am thinking just one because the label has a designator of RH (right hand?) on it.

                  The nice LCI lady told me that the part is not in stock and would have to be made. It would take 4 - 6 weeks to the part plus shipping time. I cringed just a bit because those were the same words I got when I ordered my window replacement. I was thinking I should get the tech to pull the assembly to see exactly what was broken and just order the broken parts. I ran that idea through the LCI lady and it was a no go, they sell the repair kit, and they sell the assembly, can't get pieces.

                  For now I can slide, I use a 4x4 on the top of the slide to lock it in/out. Order now, or wait. Right now I am awaiting confirmation that my tech got his order cancelled without penalty. I don't want to leave him with a $900 part he can't use, wouldn't be fair. I asked LCI about returning the part if I got the incorrect one, she said no because it would be a special order not a standard inventory order.

                  So my behind the scenes take on all of this was that GD did not have the slide assembly in stock, they would have to order it, and of course they would order it from LCI. LCI in the mean time does not have the assembly in stock, so they would request a replacement be built by their supplier. But nobody wants to admit this. It's no wonder that dealers have irritated customers when they tell them they are waiting on parts, they really are.

                  Now for the lighter side; the LCI lady kept saying I would have to "replace the whole slide", I couldn't replace just broken parts. I am thinking the entire slide box, wow, what chore that would be. I finally asked her to clarify the "whole slide", did she mean the "slide assembly", well yah, what did I think she was talking about. I am used to this type of conversation, my wife and I do this all the time. But I had a very worried face for a few minutes.




                  Click image for larger version

Name:	InwallSlide.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	70651 .
                  From my experience:

                  1. The about $900 option is the entire system, both sides.

                  2. I would be surprised if the shaft is broken.

                  3. If you have a couple of hours I would suggest pulling the column out on the bad side and inspect. See what the issue is rather than guessing.
                  Colan Arnold
                  2016 Momentum 397TH
                  Full time since 2016

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    colan Agree the shaft itself is very heavy but weakest at the shaft/coupler interface. This may be the failed area. It would not hurt to pull the motor to inspect this area with a mirror.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by MidwestCamper; 11-23-2021, 11:06 AM.
                    2017 Imagine 2600RB
                    2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                      d2reid Dallas,

                      If the shaft is broken, you may be able to have a machine shop make one for you. Still not an easy solution but could shorten the wait time.
                      Jim
                      Finding a machine shop, hope that is easier than finding an RV repair facility. I will keep that solution in mind. My Tech told me GD has one in stock. He ordered it. But we have an obligation and the RV will move with the broken slide so I have asked him to cancel the order. I am awaiting confirmation that it was successfully canceled. I won't stick him for the cost of the parts. If it doesn't get canceled then I will pay him for the part and have him ship it to me.


                      Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                      Fourth, One day I hope to sit in your presents and enjoy the trials and tribulations that you go thru from day to day (you sure seem to have lots of fun)
                      Brian
                      First – See above

                      Second, I am pretty sure the replacement is both sides, I have yet to confirm this.

                      Third, I think they concentrate on making “sets” LCI lady told me individual parts were not available.

                      Fourth, Remember the old Readers Digest, the section I read the most was “Laughter is the Best Medicine”. It kind of became one of my base philosophies for a good life.


                      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                      It would not hurt to pull the motor to inspect this area with a mirror.
                      Jim
                      Jim, I will try this. In my Momentum 376 that slide end is about 4 inches from the cabinet. Not easy to get to, by the time you get your hand in there is no room to get anything else. I am wondering though if I pull the motor is the other side will work without me having to go put the controller in manual mode each time.




                      Thank you all for your suggestions and solutions. It's good to know of several different options. Right now my plan is to confirm I haven't messed up the mobile techs business, travel to my winter home, order the parts, wait until it's really cold, then hire another mobile tech to put the new parts in. Just kidding on the really cold part... Hopefully I can get the one that's at GD. Since I will be setting during the winter it's not a big deal to wait for LCI to build one.


                      2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                      2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
                      Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        d2reid Dallas, with one motor pulled, the other will only function if its in bypass mode. So same result if your pushing in on the broken side. Also keep in mind, the motor gear box could also be the issue since the encoder is located at the top of the motor. So this motor could theoretically operate and trick the system and attempt to operate if the output shaft is not rotating. It may be worth pulling the motor to take a look in there.

                        A mechanics mirror can be used if there is space to get it in there.

                        https://www.lowes.com/pd/General-Too...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

                        Best of luck where I too would like to join You and Brian.

                        Jim
                        2017 Imagine 2600RB
                        2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                          [USER="2234"]Dallas, with one motor pulled, the other will only function if its in bypass mode.
                          I pulled the motor today. The tech left the motor unplugged, yet the other side worked fine without me having to go to the controller to put it into bypass mode. ??? Ok, I didn't think it would work either, and maybe it didn't. Perhaps the one control pad control was able to reset the controller. The reason I think this may be possible is the control on the pad would turn red, then if I reversed the control on the pad would turn blue and I could proceed. I never once got under the front cabinet to look at the controller for flashing codes, yet we (dw pushing buttons, me pushing slide sides) moved the slide in and out several times.

                          Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                          Also keep in mind, the motor gear box could also be the issue...
                          I am not quite grasping this... is the motor gear box inside the motor casing or are you referring to the gear that is below the motor and below the coupler?


                          Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                          Best of luck where I too would like to join You and Brian.
                          Jim
                          I am much smarter on the internet than I am in person...


                          So trying to get a better feel for what's going on I pulled the motor today. First off the tech left it unplugged. My synical side kicked me hard and I was creating all kinds of conspiracy silliness in my head. None panned out, I was just being silly. I pulled the motor, then I removed the coupler just below that. I slipped the coupler onto the motor shaft, it fit. I could get a finger on the torque shaft, so I pushed and pulled on the slide edge to get it to move, the shaft moved. I deduced that the gears were still in place and had grip on the torque shaft. Ok, if the torque shaft will be moved the gears won't the gears then move the torque shaft?

                          I am still not understanding. So I pulled the coupler out. It has different ends, one has a torque like indentation the other end is a circle with for keys. Keys is not the correct terminology, but best I could come up with tonight. The keys should slide into the four grooves in the torque shaft. I slid it down and it engaged. I turned it over and slid it down on the torx looking side, it engaged. I put it back with torx looking side up and reinstalled the motor. When activating the controller the motor would spin but the shaft would not spin. Hmmm!

                          Next opportunity to work on it I will flip the coupler and see if it engages. I tried a couple of cameras and mirrors to get a good look at the top of the torque shaft, Occasionally you have to laugh at yourself getting a bit older. Even with my readers on it was fuzzy and I couldn't quite make out the end. I tried shoving a couple of cameras in there to take a picture but the space was too small. I have my old gopro on the charger tonight, it may be small enough to get a picture of the shaft end. Once it's charged I will pull the motor again and pull the coupler to see if I can get a visual on the shaft end. I will reverse the coupler and see if it engages whith the motor turning, maybe I installed it wrong when I changed that motor out before, although I don't remember removing the coupler. I know that when things go wrong it's usually because I put something in backwards. Did you know that if you install the rotor backwards on a 1973 Volkswagen Bug it will still run....

                          It'll probably be Monday before I can contact any more professionals. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

                          Tech called and said the order was successfully canceled. I'll call my purchasing dealer on Monday and see if they are willing to order/drop ship the assembly. GD told me Pharr RV would order/drop ship parts. Options.
                          Last edited by d2reid; 11-24-2021, 12:50 AM.
                          2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                          2018 Yamaha XT250 Dual Sport Motorcycle
                          Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            d2reid "I am still not understanding. So I pulled the coupler out. It has different ends, one has a torque like indentation the other end is a circle with for keys. Keys is not the correct terminology, but best I could come up with tonight. The keys should slide into the four grooves in the torque shaft. I slid it down and it engaged. I turned it over and slid it down on the torx looking side, it engaged. I put it back with torx looking side up and reinstalled the motor. When activating the controller the motor would spin but the shaft would not spin. Hmmm!"

                            The "coupler" is that piece that you pulled out that goes between the motor and the shaft. As you mentioned it has two different ends. The UPPER end is going to look like a 8 point cut. It is 3/8 inches across the flats and is intended to accept a 3/8" ratchet drive. This is so you can use a 3/8" ratchet (you may need an extension) to drive the slide in or out without the motor. This is also one good way to tell if everything below the coupler is intact. (insert a ratchet and see if you can make the slide move in or out) Because it is intended to be used with a ratchet, the 3/8" (8 point) side of the coupler should be facing up. I think that's how you said you re-installed it.

                            Your earlier question dealt with the gearbox. Yes... the gearbox (about a 300:1 reduction) is part of the motor. If the motor runs but the output shaft does not turn, there is a problem with the gearbox. It is one unit so if the grearbox is bad you have to replace the whole motor/gearbox assembly.

                            I hope this helps.

                            Bob
                            Last edited by RJAPCOK; 11-24-2021, 11:11 AM.
                            Bob & Lynne

                            2020 Imagine 2970RL
                            2019 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali HD 4x4 Duramax

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                            • #29
                              d2reid I feel your pain with trying to see things as I get older. Trick I have found that works if you have someone handy to help and there is room. Use the phone and mirror (possible to do by yourself also if you have a spare hand) to take a picture of the questionable item. The picture will allow you to zoom in and have a closer inspection and the mirror will allow you to use a larger object than a camera you may or may not have that fits in the hole.

                              My biggest problem when trying to take a picture of something in confined spaces is the aim. I end up having to take 2 - 10 pictures to get what I want to see.
                              Joseph
                              Tow
                              Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                              Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                              South of Houston Texas

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                d2reid Dallas,

                                Here is a link to a fellow that does a painful presentation on the schwintek, however, you can look this over and see how its made, so there is some value. Look in the area of 16:35. The parts that control motion to the slide are the motor, through the coupler, the shaft and two gears.

                                Try this first with both motors installed. Have the DW operate the slide briefly while you pull the seal back from the slide to see the shaft. See it it is spinning at all'

                                Next, if the shaft is not rotating, swap motors from one side to the other, where this will eliminate the motor from the list of suspected parts. I have seen motors where their armature will spin on the motor shaft and only when there is a load applied. Similar issues can occur in the gear box which is the lower portion of the motor. Swapping the motors will let know know for sure if the issue is in the motor. If the issue does not follow the motor, the next suspect part may be the gears and the repair kit may indeed help.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQPIrVaSOlk

                                The coupler is keyed differently from the motor side to the shaft side so flipping it will only result in additional frustration.

                                A single operational side will continue to work but you would need to put the controller in bypass mode.

                                Jim
                                Last edited by MidwestCamper; 11-24-2021, 05:38 PM.
                                2017 Imagine 2600RB
                                2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

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