Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RV Shocks. Who is using them and how do you like them?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Rob,

    I have similar thoughts where if I look into the install, I cannot have a shock laying over due to the type of bracketry they are using. But I am curious why Lippert mounts their shocks in a direction of the axle articulation. Do they know something or not? Yes the video is amazing. LOL. Was just thinking about my 2x2 channel that's welded to my I beam so I will need to go out and look at the rig in the snow. If I went with the joyriders, I would be mounting the bracket to the thin 2x2 channel.

    My rig with its soft 1750lb springs does have some vertical motion on the sinusoidal road conditions in places in Michigan and this motion gets transferred to the truck. Otherwise the rig rides extremely nice. According to testimony (as well as Ed above) on YouTube, folks that have them feel they made a difference but how much?

    Jim

    Comment


    • #17
      Guest Hi Jim,

      I'm not sure that "things left on the counter don't move around as much" is validation of ride improvement by adding dampers. We travel the same Michigan roads every year and every time we open the trailer, we are greeted with a new experience. The most significant difference, trip-to-trip, is braking. An "emergency braking" event has far more affect on trailer contents than any road surface inputs.
      Wouldn't it be great to have accelerometer data to actually know what we are talking about .

      "Soft" suspension is a good thing . . . not a bad thing. If your suspension is absorbing road impacts with extra travel, this means that the trailer is getting a smoother ride. Adding dampers will likely cause more impact loads into the trailer frame during jounce inputs.

      Rob
      Last edited by Cate&Rob; 01-27-2020, 03:39 PM.
      Cate & Rob
      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
      2015 Reflection 303RLS
      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

      Comment


      • #18
        Rob,

        I'm hoping to get accelerometers to measure the before and after, but this is borrowed equipment so I can't guarantee I can get what I need. At a minimum, I will get video. I agree a soft suspension is good, but undamped, it can result In some other bad effects such as body roll, and spring yielding due to overtravel in jounce which the older Imagine line had suffered from. My approach is to keep the soft springs and dampen their movement rather than to move up to the 2200lb springs. If the shocks do not do what I am hoping to achieve, I have the option of moving up to the 2200lb springs since I have three inch axles. So my Imagine with the older spring system is a special case of sorts. Somewhere online is a video of two guys actually riding inside a trailer and using their buttometers, they felt there was a noticeable difference. This may be worth something or not.
        ,
        It would be great if we also had some folks on the forum who has installed the dampers to provide feedback on their results.

        Below is some history in what some of us have experienced with an overly soft suspension.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERN3OIU4TQ4

        Jim
        Last edited by Guest; 01-27-2020, 08:13 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Well now that the ice next to the Imagine has melted, I ventured outside and took some measurements. The Lippert system requires a minimum of 4 inches of clearance between the tire and the frame. I have 3.5 inches. This is too bad since after tossing this around I was leaning on the Lippert system due to their upper mounting method which I prefer. If the height from the frame to axle is low, the Lippert shocks could be mounted at a less than optimal angle. To overcome this I was planning on modifying the Lippert U bolt supplied axle bracket to be similar to the joyrider system. This would incorporate the best mounting of both types of systems.

          For the joyrider system. I'm not liking the drilling of the I beam flange but since my Imagine has a square channel welded to the bottom of the frame, this is not an issue. The 0.200 inch thickness of this channel is however a concern, since I'm not comfortable using the self tapping bolts in such thin material. Three ways to overcome this.

          1) Use the self tapping bolts and diagonally weld the upper shock bracket to the square channel. This would provide the added strength in mounting the upper bracket to the 0.200" thick channel.

          2) Carefully craft a rectangular threaded plate to match the upper bracket of the joyrider system. Predrill the channel, then with great pain and diligence, feed this plate into the square channel to bolt the bracket.

          3) Another approach is to drill a single hole in the channel, feed in the plate in without tapping it, weld the plate into the frame through the hole, then use the self tapping bolts to connect the upper bracket.

          The other small issue is the drain from the front tanks will need an offset to clear the shock bracket since the joyriders are mounted inside the frame.

          Did I state I wanted to install shocks on my TT? Lol

          Jim
          Last edited by Guest; 02-04-2020, 07:14 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
            Well now that the ice next to the Imagine has melted, I ventured outside and took some measurements. The Lippert system requires a minimum of 4 inches of clearance between the tire and the frame. I have 3.5 inches. This is too bad since after tossing this around I was leaning on the Lippert system due to their upper mounting method which I prefer. If the height from the frame to axle is low, the Lippert shocks could be mounted at a less than optimal angle. To overcome this I was planning on modifying the Lippert U bolt supplied axle bracket to be similar to the joyrider system. This would incorporate the best mounting of both types of systems.

            For the joyrider system. I'm not liking the drilling of the I beam flange but since my Imagine has a square channel welded to the bottom of the frame, this is not an issue. The 0.200 inch thickness of this channel is however a concern, since I'm not comfortable using the self tapping bolts in such thin material. Three ways to overcome this.

            1) Use the self tapping bolts and diagonally weld the upper shock bracket to the square channel. This would provide the added strength in mounting the upper bracket to the 0.200" thick channel.

            2) Carefully craft a rectangular threaded plate to match the upper bracket of the joyrider system. Predrill the channel, then with great pain and diligence, feed this plate into the square channel to bolt the bracket.

            3) Another approach is to drill a single hole in the channel, feed in the plate in without tapping it, weld the plate into the frame through the hole, then use the self tapping bolts to connect the upper bracket.

            The other small issue is the drain from the front tanks will need an offset to clear the shock bracket since the joyriders are mounted inside the frame.

            Did I state I wanted to install shocks on my TT? Lol

            Jim
            Have you considered the road master comfort ride system. I believe I am going with that one.
            2017 F250 Diesel Superduty SRW SWB
            2020 Solitude 310GK-R

            Comment


            • #21
              The roadmaster and the joyrider systems are one and the same according to the inventor.

              Comment


              • #22
                The Roadmaster system looks very similar to the JoyRider system. Both bolt to the lower flange of the frame I beam (or the square tube welded under the I beam on some trailers). Etrailer has a Youtube video of installation on the Roadmaster system on a Solitude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6b9GdHPvgw It does look like Roadmaster may have more lateral offset to control side-to-side sway than Joyrider. They also seem to offer one calibration of damper for any size trailer. This still doesn't make sense to me. I have not looked at a price comparison, but from the parts list, I don't know how one would choose between Roadmaster and Joyrider. I don't care for the large hole that the installers have cut in the coroplast for the Roadmaster installation . . . I think that I would avoid that. The youtube video does show before-and-after inside video.

                Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                  The Roadmaster system looks very similar to the JoyRider system. Both bolt to the lower flange of the frame I beam (or the square tube welded under the I beam on some trailers). Etrailer has a Youtube video of installation on the Roadmaster system on a Solitude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6b9GdHPvgw It does look like Roadmaster may have more lateral offset to control side-to-side sway than Joyrider. They also seem to offer one calibration of damper for any size trailer. This still doesn't make sense to me. I have not looked at a price comparison, but from the parts list, I don't know how one would choose between Roadmaster and Joyrider. I don't care for the large hole that the installers have cut in the coroplast for the Roadmaster installation . . . I think that I would avoid that. The youtube video does show before-and-after inside video.

                  Rob
                  I agree I would not cut the coroplast that far back. I like that it is 15 degrees. I am curious what the rear suspension of the ford truck shock angle is.
                  2017 F250 Diesel Superduty SRW SWB
                  2020 Solitude 310GK-R

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I have been interested in adding shocks to my 310. After reading that the shocks are the same whether your rig weighs 12k or 20k lbs., I am convinced that there has been no real study made on the effectiveness of this solution.

                    Shocks that are either overmatched for weight or too small to handle the weight do not give me a good feeling. Too stiff and there is zero benefit (and some detriment) to them and too soft and they are severely limited in their usefulness.

                    Imagine that they used the same shocks for an F150 and an F450. Would you think that is well thought out or appropriate?
                    2017 310GK

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      JeffC,

                      Rob is the shock tuning/vehicle dynamics engineer and would have some input here.

                      From my perspective, our RVs do not respond the same as a motor vehicle where the tires really should not leave the ground. Seldom does this happen with such a heavily loaded rig. To your point, the damping on the F150 or F450 would also not be the same loaded as compared to being empty but some damping in both cases would be present so maybe the vehicle shocks are a best case for both conditions? I'm also interested in these to control unwanted body roll and can only hope they may help for those sinusoidal roads in a couple places in Michigan.

                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Take a look at other trailers going down the road, watch the axles, not the wheels. Look how much vibration exists. Then look how much bounce is allowed. Shocks dampen all of this, and get the trailer tracking solid as a rock. If you have the time and money, shocks are a significant update for your trailer that will not improve towing from a drivers perspective, but from a trailer and tire life perspective.

                        I have installed Lippert shock kits on two TT's, one being a 2017 2800bh, with excellent results.

                        The "older" GD trailers with Lippert frames and Schwintek slides are compatible with the LIppert shock kit.

                        Edit;
                        Dexter frames with more standard slides are compatible with Roadmaster and Joyride shock kit...but may require mild mods.

                        Roadmaster and JoyRide are practically the same design FYI.

                        I have a Roadmaster 2460 system on hand right now, ready for installation on my 2020 2800bh in Spring. It will not be a quick job like the Lippert kits were.
                        Last edited by EMetz582; 02-11-2020, 02:14 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          BTW, shock kits are sizes by AXLE SIZE thus weight range and shock dampening amount well known. (Its not putting F-450 shocks on a F-150 or vise-versa.)

                          It comes down to the angle of the shock, at actual ride height, where the shock is or is not effective. Too much angle = very little effective dampening.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            All of the above makes sense to me.

                            A shock absorber has a single function, to dampen oscillation. All shocks are designed to work within specific weight and performance (dampening, rebound, travel, etc) parameters. An empty 450 would still not be optimal using the same shock as a loaded 150. (pick any other analogy that you like, it is the difference in load and travel that I'm talking about)

                            Using the same shock on a 10K TT and a 20K 5th wheel still does not make sense to me. Is it better than running without? Maybe. Over dampened is not a good thing anymore than under dampened.

                            I would be much happier if there were two or three different shocks available depending on load.
                            Last edited by JeffC; 02-11-2020, 12:04 PM.
                            2017 310GK

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JeffC View Post

                              I would be much happier if there were two or three different shocks available depending on load.
                              Again, the shocks in each shock kit are selected by the axle size and thus weight range among brands.

                              If you feel you can better select shock dampening yourself, there are an infinite number of shocks that fit each kit. Esp the Roadmaster and Joyride.

                              You can also vary the angle to increase and (more so) decrease the amount of dampening. Using your F-450 example, if you felt the provided shocks were too stiff for your trailers weight, simply increase the angle.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by EMetz582 View Post

                                Again, the shocks in each shock kit are selected by the axle size and thus weight range among brands.

                                If you feel you can better select shock dampening yourself, there are an infinite number of shocks that fit each kit. Esp the Roadmaster and Joyride.

                                You can also vary the angle to increase and (more so) decrease the amount of dampening. Using your F-450 example, if you felt the provided shocks were too stiff for your trailers weight, simply increase the angle.
                                My understanding from the posts in this thread was that there was a single shock part number for all the kits. Is that not correct?
                                2017 310GK

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X