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Fused bearing to spindle, the repair, lessons learned.

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  • Fused bearing to spindle, the repair, lessons learned.

    I got to meet and talk with a lot of great people during this ordeal. The boys at 65 Motor Shop in Harrison, AR. The tech at LCI that helped me get the correct axle. The nice folks at Harrison Village Campground that accommodated our uncertain schedule.

    The chain support for the missing wheel worked well for the 4 miles I had to drive it like that. I certainly would not want to go much further that way.

    Getting the parts. Axle, hub, bearings, seals. Nobody carries axles in stock for my Momentum. So that leaves two sources, Dexter and Lippert (LCI). Dexter has many distributors, LCI not so many. I really looked at getting a Dexter Axle, thinking I could drive to nearby cities and pick it up and bring it back and be on the road, nope. However, Dexter could make an axle to match the LCI one and would only take about 4 weeks to get it. Sigh. Lippert took the numbers from my axle label and created a new axle for me and got it shipped in 10 days. Yea. But there was a minor hitch I will explain in the repair part of the story.

    Hub, Performance Trailer said they could get a new hub to me quickly + shipping. But I shopped around a bit and found E-Trailer to have the hub cheaper and free shipping. That was easy.

    Bearings – I will admit to being a bigot. I prefer US made steel over Chinese made steel. So I went to NAPA to order Timken bearings, got all new bearings and races for all 6 wheels, $500. When I went to pick them up they had SKF bearings. I could never nail down whether they were better or worse than Timkens, so I went with the bird in hand.

    Seals were easy.

    Parts are on order so we made the best of the wait. Went to Branson and saw some shows. Road the Buffalo National River on our Kayaks. Motorcyled around the Arkansas mountain roads. Fished the tail waters of Bull Shoals dam in a trophy trout section of the White River (got skunked).

    Parts all arrive. Repair is scheduled. Limp into the shop and lift the trailer up on the level up system, set jacks. First problem, getting the hub off past the welded castle nut and broken bearings. They brought out Big Bertha, a one inch impact wrench they use on big truck nuts. It struggled but eventually ripped the castle nut off. The outside bearing is the one that failed. The inside race of that bearing was stuck on the spindle and couldn't be pulled off. I brought out my diamond blade grinder and we used that to cut it and then still had to chisel of off, ok hub is off.

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    Unbolted the U-bolts and dropped the axle. Hauled into the shop next to the new axle. The tech says “I think we have a problem!” . You never want to hear that. Ok, what? The new axle has six bolts on the brake plate and the old axle has 5. Now we have a crowd, the other mechanics came over to look. One said, turn it over, we did. Aha, they matched, 5 bolts on both. You can't make this stuff up. But after all the time and effort to get things ordered it certainly got my heart rate up a bit.

    I pull the new hub out of the box. Hmmm! No dust cap, or in this hubs case, no oil cap. The old one had melted. Yes you can order them and they will be here in two days, but the repair is being done right now. I searched around town and found a parts store that carries Oil Caps for Lippert Axles, long shot, but it was the correct one. I left to go get it. When I came back the tech was sitting informed me that the studs holding the brake plates on were to short. Visions of more delays swam through my head.

    Lesson learned: When ordering a new axle determine if new brake plates are needed also. Brake plates are bolted on to the axle and hold the disk brake calipers in place.

    The tech told me he could drive the old bolts off the old axle and re-use them, but they wouldn't be new. I said proceed.

    The new hub had a new race in it. Yea!. The tech told me they didn't have a press to put a new race in the other hub, that he inspected it and could not find any flaws. So we discussed briefly the risk factors of using the old race versus the possibility that he could not get a new race properly seated. If I lived in a perfect world I would be at a facility that had all the proper equipment and expertise. But sometimes you have to take what you can get.

    After that discussion I decided to forgo my decision to replace all the other bearings. Back to “if it aint broke, don't fix it”. New axle installed I opted to put all new u-bolts on it. The plates that came with the u-bolt set did not match, so used the old plates. A little rusty but appeared sound.

    We pulled the wheels off of the other hubs and inspected the bearings. When we went to remove one of the oil caps it broke off. Hmmm! Anyone have any idea what would cause those thick plastic oil caps to break? I couldn't figure it out. Luckily, when I found the oil cap at a parts store I bought two.

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    Readjusted the tension on the castle nut and lubed. One of the castle nuts was really loose. Another oil cap was cracked and appeared to be leaking grease, very slight, but needs to be replaced. All back together now, paid the bill. Parts and labor came to just around $1500. Two weeks delay. $300 in lost reservations. New rule, if they don't have a refund policy don't make long term reservations.

    So why the long story? It goes back to my grade school teacher explaining why there is no such thing as a stupid question. While it may be obvious to most people, there are some others sitting next to you that will have the same question you do. So if this narrative helps another rv'er understand the steps to getting a bad bearing repaired it is worth the effort.

    Now for the lessons learned.

    When deciding if a bad bearing can just be fixed, or if more repairs are needed, it's a good idea to remove the bad bearing and inspect the spindle before you proceed.

    If you have to order a new axle, know that they usually come as an axle set, including new hubs and bearings assembled at the factory. In my case I had a disk brake upgrade using Kodiak brakes. While it was great the LCI guy understood this a ordered me just the axle tube, I didn't know enough to talk about the brake plates that come with the axle, so ended up with the too short stud problem on the brake plate mounting.

    When ordering a new hub don't forget the oil cap/dust cover.

    When deciding on what grease to use find one that has a high drop point and is sold nationally. Don't mix grease types, sometimes they fight with each other.

    Castle nut tension is probably the most important part of any bearing install/service. To tight the bearings bind and overheat, too loose and the slop destroys the bearings causing failure.

    After the installation I drove 80 miles to my next destination. I stopped and checked hub temps twice. Ok, I am a little paranoid at this time. After my winter bearing repack the hubs were running 95-120f when checked. All through FL, GA, and TN, 95-120f. So I stopped checking, thought I was good. Somewhere in the run from Memphis to Harrison I had a bearing fail. When I stopped for fuel in Harrison that wheel was smoking. Had I checked it along that last run when we made potty stops I would have caught it earlier and probably just have a simple bearing replacement.

    Checking the temps on my 80 mile run they are running around 120-140, except for the middle right hub, it was 180f. While the higher temps are disconcerting, I know they are not too hot. Another bearing replacement I had years ago the new bearings were running around 300f, but after several hundred miles seated and then cooled down.

    Last lesson, after putting the castle nut back on, stop in a few hundred miles and check them. This is a royal pain to do in the field, but a really good preventative maintenance step to take.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by d2reid; 05-13-2023, 11:53 AM.
    2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
    2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
    E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
    Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

  • #2
    Dallas, good to hear that you with great help got the repair done. I believe you both learned for yourself and taught us. Not specifically stated, but I believe you are telling us bearing service is done by removal, cleaning, inspecting and repacking. NOT using that end of axle grease fitting. And that high quality grease must be used, readily available. I use Lucas Red and Tacky from Walmart.?
    2020 Solitude 2930RL S-Class

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    • #3
      Originally posted by steve gravelle View Post
      And that high quality grease must be used, readily available. I use Lucas Red and Tacky from Walmart.?
      Ya...Wally World usually carries the 'Good Stuff'...lol

      2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
      Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

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      • #4
        Thanks for the detailed post Dallas. While it must has been some ordeal, glad you are out the other side of this.
        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
        Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

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        • #5
          Glad you made it through the real with just minor cost (seems major, but no damage to the unit is a def plus).

          As for that break, it almost looks like it was overtightened pulling the 2 pieces in half. I would not thing that hub growth would pull it apart, but stranger things have happened.
          Joseph
          Tow
          Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
          Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
          South of Houston Texas

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          • #6
            Dallas . . . Thanks for taking the time to explain the details . . . we all learn from each other on this forum.

            Rob
            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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            • #7
              Originally posted by steve gravelle View Post
              I use Lucas Red and Tacky from Walmart.?
              Lucas Red and Tacky, but I went to 4 different stores before I could find it. Now I have plenty on hand.

              2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
              2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
              E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
              Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by d2reid View Post

                Lucas Red and Tacky, but I went to 4 different stores before I could find it. Now I have plenty on hand.
                Wow what a mess. Glad you on the road. Dexter requires a 50 ft lb preload on the bearings, then back off to finger tight. Is Lippert the same? All I know from reading and watching the Dexter videos is the preload is critical to seating the bearings an races correctly.

                I am also surprised the shop said they could not do the races - all it takes is a good brass punch and a bit of time - but that is from the videos - I have not done it yet myself.

                Safe travels my friend

                Keith
                2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yoda View Post

                  all it takes is a good brass punch and a bit of time . . .

                  Keith
                  Depending on how tight the race to hub fit is and how much of the race edge is exposed, a brass punch may not work. You will just be tearing the corner off the brass. I have had better luck working in small steps around the race with a steel punch. I have seen hubs where there is no edge of the race exposed. Removing that race requires a machine shop. I have read about placing a weld bead around the race and as it cools this contracts the race and it will drop out . . . but, I have never tried this.

                  Rob

                  Cate & Rob
                  (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                  2015 Reflection 303RLS
                  2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                  Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                    Depending on how tight the race to hub fit is and how much of the race edge is exposed, a brass punch may not work. You will just be tearing the corner off the brass. I have had better luck working in small steps around the race with a steel punch. I have seen hubs where there is no edge of the race exposed. Removing that race requires a machine shop. I have read about placing a weld bead around the race and as it cools this contracts the race and it will drop out . . . but, I have never tried this.

                    Rob
                    I also read about using dry ice, but that was for making it easier to install them. Wonder if it would help in removal?

                    Keith
                    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've done several different types of automotive hubs over the years and a couple of trailer ones. In even the ones where there is not a visible notch to pull the races there is usually just enough of the race showing to drive it out.

                      The weld bead trick is one I have not tried (no welder and never ran into such an instance), but the theory is science backed. Essentially as mentioned the weld causes the race to be put into compression by the contraction of the weld bead. If one bead does not work, add a second. In the worst case you can weld a bar across the race and use it to drive against.

                      Once you get it off, then use a die grinder to add a couple of notches for easy removal next time. The hardest ones to remove in my experience have been the outer ones. There seems to usually be an issue with getting enough angle on the race to drive it out.

                      Brass punches are for taking things apart that you plan on reusing. If it's trash, skip the protective brass and go straight to the hard steel. And on a side note, I have never seen a brass race installer, they are usually steel.

                      https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/p...-installer-set Just saying.....
                      Joseph
                      Tow
                      Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                      Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                      South of Houston Texas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Concerning removing and installing bearing races, use a brass drift to remove. The easiest way to install the new one is use the old race as a driver. Once it's installed, you might have to pop the old race back out with your brass punch if it sticks but it pops right out. Just make sure you set it up with the wide edge of the old race against the narrow edge of the new race so you can get it back out. I've been doing it this way for years (and used to fix cars for a living so I've done a lot of them).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Yoda View Post

                          I am also surprised the shop said they could not do the races - all it takes is a good brass punch and a bit of time - but that is from the videos - I have not done it yet myself.
                          I was surprised at that too. It's any easy job. I've done about a dozen maybe. A couple minutes tapping around the race and you're done.
                          I did one on the 2021 303RLS already because I dropped the bearing and messed up the cage.
                          Never used JPS350 's method, but I will next time

                          2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                          Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yoda View Post
                            I am also surprised the shop said they could not do the races - all it takes is a good brass punch and a bit of time - but that is from the videos - I have not done it yet myself.
                            Replacing the races.... Iv'e done it, I have watched it professionally done. IMHO when taking them out just wail away. If you happen to scratch the hub the new race will cover it. Putting the new race in is where the issue lies. The very best way is to have a precision press calibrated to the exact diameter needed. Even pressure all the way around, no going sideways, off canter, off center, divots and notches. But alas, you don't find that often, only in the very best of trailer/manufacturer shops.

                            The place I had the word done was not one of those, it was a home town engine shop that does a variety of work for the local farm community. There are some really good mechanics/technicians in these shops, years of experience in all kinds of repairs. The tech and I had some lengthy conversations about RV bearings sets, so he knew I was quite particular in my expectations, ok, maybe a bit anal rententive. So when he expressed doubts that he could replace the race with machine shop precision I totally respected his honesty and went with plan B,, leave the undamaged race in place. Was it really undamaged? I was out chasing parts so didn't get to examine it myself. But the honest discussion led me to go with the techs advice.

                            Todays run. 350 miles. The middle right wheel that was running warm on the first run bothered me. What's funny is my family knows when I am fussing about something. Unknown to me they had a little bet going. My son bet my wife that I wouldn't leave it alone, that I would have to take the hub apart and reseat it. I procrastinated for a day and a half, then couldn't stand it anymore. Lifted the trailer, pulled the wheel, pulled the cotter pin, loosened the castle nut, broke out the torqure wrench, retorqued, back it off, hand tightened it, reset the cotter pin, put the oil cap back on, remounted the wheel, torqued the lug nuts.

                            I was watching hub temps like a hawk today, Every stop got a temp check. Middle right is now running 94f, like the other five. My wife sent a picture of me working on the hub to my son and they both got a good chuckle out of it. So far so good. I am more relaxed about bearings today. Another 300+ mile run tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

                            2017 Momentum 376, 2019 Ford F450
                            2022 Triumph Scrambler Motorcycle
                            E-bikes, Hobi Pedal Kayaks
                            Kota the dog and KC the Kitty Cat

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