Losing Trailer Brakes while on the Road

[DieselJ]

Trailer: 2018 Grand Design Solitude 375RES 5th wheel. We are the second owner and used it from Jan to Oct without issue last year.

Truck: 2022 Ram 3500 DW Diesel – 4,800 miles new

• Took the trailer into a Grand Design Dealer for a recall on Refrigerator wiring harness; while there they did an inspection, repacked bearings, replaced backing plate on Drivers side front wheel.
• First Trip of season – No issues
• Second trip of season Trailer brakes “disconnected” appeared on truck console. I pulled to the side of Hwy and verified all connectors were secure and lights at rear of vehicle work as expected. We were 20min away from camp so just got back on the Hwy and took it slow. The brakes were intermittent, coming and going with no rhyme or reason. By the time I arrived at camp, the brakes were working fine, so I couldn’t isolate if it was the truck or trailer.
• While on “Vacation” I took the truck to the local Ram dealer who checked it out and said the truck looks good, but it did store a code – C10C7-19 “Electronic Brake controller output-over current”. In short, they told me it’s the trailer’s fault.
• Had a mobile RV tech come out to camp who did visual inspection of the underbody, took apart connections at pin box and reconnected (but said everything looked tight). He was thinking it has more to do with a poor connection between the 7 pin blades. He bent the blades a bit to make a tighter connection.
• End of vacation – 5 minutes on the road and the brakes go out again. I moved the 7 pin connection from the bed of the truck to the bumper – still no brakes. I decided I would drive her home cautiously and then straight to the Grand Design RV Dealer. Once on the Hwy, the brakes started working again and it was smooth sailing the whole way home and to the RV dealer.
• Picked up the trailer today. The dealer said there was a clip “missing” on the right rear brake to hold the magnet in place, but no other issues were found ($300 for a $1 dollar clip). 40 minutes into my drive home the brakes when out again and very quickly came right back on. That is until I was at my exit. The second I stepped on the brakes the light came on the I lost brakes. Fortunately, this truck is a beast and was able to keep me on the road and the people in front of me from becoming pancakes. But this is dangerous.

I’m getting beyond frustrated at this situation. I called Grand Design RV manufacturer who said I should take the Trailer to an automotive shop next. Are you Kidding me???? I’m considering purchasing an Electric Brake force Meter off Amazon and Drive the truck around for a week to see if I get the error while I drive without the trailer connected. But outside of that I’m running out of ideas.

Any help would be appreciated gang.

Cross Posted to:
Trailer Brakes Intermittent | Cummins Diesel Forum (cumminsforum.com)
Losing Trailer Brakes | Ram Heavy Duty Forum (hdrams.com)

[Country Campers]

Have you tried to pull the emergency breakaway pin to see if the trailer tires lock up. You can jack one tire up and spin by hand and have someone pull the breakaway pin to check. Please do not leave the pin out for very long. If the brake locks up then the issue would be in the truck wiring or from the truck to the pin box. Another way to check is to jump from the positive on the trailer cable end to the brake pin, again if brakes lock up then the issue is in the truck and not the RV. If either one of these fails then you would need to look at the trailer.

Brian

[DieselJ]

Another way to check is to jump from the positive on the trailer cable end to the brake pin, again if brakes lock up then the issue is in the truck and not the RV. If either one of these fails then you would need to look at the trailer.
Brian

I like this idea, now I just have to wait for the problem to persist while I'm stopped. More ofent then not the problem occurs when I'm moving.

[howson]

DieselJ -- Cate&Rob battled a similar issue with his new Ford. Maybe give you a few ideas? See https://gdrvowners.com/towing-and-hi...ected-warnings

Howard

[Cate&Rob]

I encountered similar random lack of trailer brakes after I traded my 2014 F150 for a 2022 F350 (same Reflection 303 5th wheel). Of course, I blamed my trailer brake system. I have a EoH disc brake system that I installed myself, so I know it well. I added resistors, changed wiring connectors and so on. Towed home from Florida to Canada, again not knowing on each brake apply whether I would have trailer brakes. Got home to find the snail mail from Ford advising that the problem was the software in the truck . Had the truck software updated by the dealer and the problem is gone. Bottom line . . . the problem might not be the trailer.

Rob

[DieselJ]

Thanks for the update Rob- that would be nice if we're as simple as a software update. I'm going to do a little digging on your recall and bring this to my dealer, perhaps these guys are using the same controllers? Either way, only open recall on the truck currently is related to the truck spontaneously igniting 🙄😵. But the dealer wants to see both the truck and trailer next week to see if we can get this straightened out.

[familytruckster4]

Unfortunately modern trucks have pretty sophisticated electronics but trailers dont. Its kind of like trying to play an 8-track tape in your SD card slot.

[Yoda]

Trailer: 2018 Grand Design Solitude 375RES 5th wheel. We are the second owner and used it from Jan to Oct without issue last year.

Truck: 2022 Ram 3500 DW Diesel – 4,800 miles new

• Took the trailer into a Grand Design Dealer for a recall on Refrigerator wiring harness; while there they did an inspection, repacked bearings, replaced backing plate on Drivers side front wheel.
• First Trip of season – No issues
• Second trip of season Trailer brakes “disconnected” appeared on truck console. I pulled to the side of Hwy and verified all connectors were secure and lights at rear of vehicle work as expected. We were 20min away from camp so just got back on the Hwy and took it slow. The brakes were intermittent, coming and going with no rhyme or reason. By the time I arrived at camp, the brakes were working fine, so I couldn’t isolate if it was the truck or trailer.
• While on “Vacation” I took the truck to the local Ram dealer who checked it out and said the truck looks good, but it did store a code – C10C7-19 “Electronic Brake controller output-over current”. In short, they told me it’s the trailer’s fault.
• Had a mobile RV tech come out to camp who did visual inspection of the underbody, took apart connections at pin box and reconnected (but said everything looked tight). He was thinking it has more to do with a poor connection between the 7 pin blades. He bent the blades a bit to make a tighter connection.
• End of vacation – 5 minutes on the road and the brakes go out again. I moved the 7 pin connection from the bed of the truck to the bumper – still no brakes. I decided I would drive her home cautiously and then straight to the Grand Design RV Dealer. Once on the Hwy, the brakes started working again and it was smooth sailing the whole way home and to the RV dealer.
• Picked up the trailer today. The dealer said there was a clip “missing” on the right rear brake to hold the magnet in place, but no other issues were found ($300 for a $1 dollar clip). 40 minutes into my drive home the brakes when out again and very quickly came right back on. That is until I was at my exit. The second I stepped on the brakes the light came on the I lost brakes. Fortunately, this truck is a beast and was able to keep me on the road and the people in front of me from becoming pancakes. But this is dangerous.

I’m getting beyond frustrated at this situation. I called Grand Design RV manufacturer who said I should take the Trailer to an automotive shop next. Are you Kidding me???? I’m considering purchasing an Electric Brake force Meter off Amazon and Drive the truck around for a week to see if I get the error while I drive without the trailer connected. But outside of that I’m running out of ideas.

Any help would be appreciated gang.

Cross Posted to:
Trailer Brakes Intermittent | Cummins Diesel Forum (cumminsforum.com)
Losing Trailer Brakes | Ram Heavy Duty Forum (hdrams.com)

OK 2018 trailer.
Brake wiring is probably #14 and the brake wiring splices are probably the Scotch knife splices. You also indicate the RV dealer replaced a backing plate on the drivers side front, so they messed with the wiring. Above that connection are the master 3 way splices to the other axle. If it got stretched in the backing plate replacement - that cold be the issue. Ill bet a cup of coffee the dealer got forceful working on that wiring.

I actually would start there. First check the wiring coming out of the backing plate for how the dealer did that. Could be a short there too. If nothing found, Undo the coroplast at the location and replace those connections - there are two. There should be some slack in the wiring and easy to get at. One for power and a second for negative return. Just a thought - you may be able to pull them through the wiring passes through the coroplast, but mine had a strain relief knot above that point.

I am adding a picture of what the Scotch splices look like



Hope this helps

Keith

[Dave27]

This problem can be caused by a bad ground. It is a good idea to place the mess of wires in the pin box in a junction box. Then the grounds can be held in place by a nut on a stud. This is very secure and easy to check in the future.
Dave

[DieselJ]

I actually would start there. First check the wiring coming out of the backing plate for how the dealer did that.....

Hope this helps

Keith

Thanks - I'll look at this when I get under the trailer this weekend. Supposedly the dealer rechecked their work when I sent it back in but I'm this it was a second rushed job and I don't think I'll be returning to them.

[DieselJ]

This problem can be caused by a bad ground. It is a good idea to place the mess of wires in the pin box in a junction box. Then the grounds can be held in place by a nut on a stud. This is very secure and easy to check in the future.
Dave

This was actually one of the first places I looked, previous owner already had wires securely placed in a junction box. Thanks for the idea though!

[Jlawles2]

Since the truck is reporting over current, I would lead to a chafed wire somewhere. I had a similar issue on an enclosed car hauler. The magnet wire came loose and rubbed the inside the drum. When the brakes were applied, the wire would contact the drum, cause a direct short, then kick out the Prodigy P2 brake controller (2004 model truck so no integrated controller).

Since you state someone was inside the drum to do repacking, I might be tempted to start there, even if the dealer pulled them as they may have missed the chaffed wire, stopped when they found one that was chaffed, or there is another one that has came loose.

[familytruckster4]

I have seen a couple of trailers with magnet wires that were not properly held in place inside the brake assy. A couple of times it was on a brand new unit. I am still not a fan of using metallic clips to secure wiring. I will sometimes put a few wraps of electrical tape over the wire in that area to avoid chafing. Its one of the many things I check during a repack.

[DieselJ]

So just an update for all of those that might encounter the same problem - I started at the front and worked my way back. The Truck and trailer were evaluated at RAM and RAM again reiterated that the truck is functioning properly. Replaced 7pin to the proper blade setup (single blade not the alligator type), unfortunately the problem still persisted. Checked junction box in head of 5th wheel, no problems there. So I moved to the brakes and axles. And there the problem was found, the wire running through the rear axle had been worn away and was fully exposed causing the short. Replaced the wiring today and everything is working as it should. Though I consider this a temporary fix. Trailer is only a few years old so I imagine the wires will continue to rub and wear on the inside of the axle so I'll need to re-route these to not run through the axle. Very poor (and dangerous) design...

Thanks to this community for all the great ideas and suggestions - I definitely would have gone crazy trying to trouble shoot this myself.

[Yoda]

So just an update for all of those that might encounter the same problem - I started at the front and worked my way back. The Truck and trailer were evaluated at RAM and RAM again reiterated that the truck is functioning properly. Replaced 7pin to the proper blade setup (single blade not the alligator type), unfortunately the problem still persisted. Checked junction box in head of 5th wheel, no problems there. So I moved to the brakes and axles. And there the problem was found, the wire running through the rear axle had been worn away and was fully exposed causing the short. Replaced the wiring today and everything is working as it should. Though I consider this a temporary fix. Trailer is only a few years old so I imagine the wires will continue to rub and wear on the inside of the axle so I'll need to re-route these to not run through the axle. Very poor (and dangerous) design...

Thanks to this community for all the great ideas and suggestions - I definitely would have gone crazy trying to trouble shoot this myself.

Glad you found the issue. As for running the wire outside the axle I have seen numerous posts of using some sort of loom and zip ties, hot glue/silicone to hold it in place on the axle.. BTW are you grommets still in place?. Was it the axle the dealer replaced the backing plate on? Just curious

Thanks for posting back