Panhard Bar Prorotype Install - Reflection 303RLS

[Gyrogearloose]

Installed my Panhard Bar design on my Reflection 303RLS. This is a prototype....

This installation should do a few things.

1. Hopefully eliminate the possibility of broke spring hangers due to lateral flexing of the spring hangers.
2. Reduce body roll of trailer
3. Reduce side to side movement when parked.
4. No heavy duty shackles
5. No reinforced spring hanger

I have not done any road testing yet but will take some pictures of suspension while parked in tight turns. At some point would like to get a Go-pro video of suspension while traveling.

My 303RLS does not have the 2"x2" frame lift so my setup uses clamp plates to the frame with Grade 8 NF hardware torqued to 90 ft lbs. Cross member tubing is 1.5"x1.5" .120 wall tubing and Panhard Bar is 1.5" .120 wall 4130 Chrome Molly. Greasable 3/4" Heim Joints.

Please don't comment on my crappy welds (only done where high strength was not required, can't see to weld good anymore). Welds that required high strength were done by certified welder. Panhard Bar preheated and welded with 4130 filler/Heliarc.

I have designed a version for 303RLS with the 2"x2" lift which should be a bit easier to install.

I will do a write-up as time allows if there is any interest.

Pat

[TucsonJim]

Wow Pat! That is some really impressive work. I know you've been putting this together for a long time. Great job.

[Country Campers]

Very nice Pat, glad to see this all come together. I can not wait for the report on how it handles.

Brian

[howson]

Wow...look forward to reading more, Pat. Unlike the other wizards here, I'm just a humble mortal so hopefully I'll understand what you write.

[Gyrogearloose]

Thanks, TucsonJim , Country Campers , howson

Thanks for the kind words. Yes it took awhile to get this done, had to get property insured again because of all the past California fires. Also needed good weather for awhile.

Howard, don't berate your self, everyone is an artist or expert in their own way.

Now I just need to figure out how to add images correctly.

Pat

[Country Campers]

Pat

The pictures are good. When you upload them you can pick a size. I have been picking small , one can still click on them to make bigger.

Brian

[Yoda]

Pat - looks very good and a lot of work. Hope you do not mind one question. You have both bars in the same orientation. IE the bar is clamped to the axle tube on the same side. Is there a reason you did not install one opposite of the other? Just curious

[JCR GD]

Lookin good Pat!

[Gyrogearloose]

Pat - looks very good and a lot of work. Hope you do not mind one question. You have both bars in the same orientation. IE the bar is clamped to the axle tube on the same side. Is there a reason you did not install one opposite of the other? Just curious

Yoda,

Good question, no good answer. Thought about them on opposite sides to potentially balance handling, but the primary design is to transfer all lateral forces from the spring hangers to Panhard Bar. One of the reasons for having them on the same side it help keep axles in better alignment during body roll (Panhard Bars arcs the same), even though we are probably talking < .1". Bars on opposite sides move the axles in ever so slightly in opposite directions (4" body roll would equate to about .06" offset). On the same side they move together in the same direction.

Lets take it to Daytona and try both ways.

Pat

[Yoda]

Yoda,

Good question, no good answer. Thought about them on opposite sides to potentially balance handling, but the primary design is to transfer all lateral forces from the spring hangers to Panhard Bar. One of the reasons for having them on the same side it help keep axles in better alignment during body roll (Panhard Bars arcs the same), even though we are probably talking < .1". Bars on opposite sides move the axles in ever so slightly in opposite directions (4" body roll would equate to about .06" offset). On the same side they move together in the same direction.

Lets take it to Daytona and try both ways.

Pat

Thanks Pat
The civil engineer in me was curious. I know nothing about these bars or how they work. Been reading internet information on it today. But if you go to Datona you will need to paint flames on the side of the trailer wont you?

Please keep us posted on how it works.

On edit - I did find this video very helpful in understand how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8

[Gyrogearloose]

On edit - I did find this video very helpful in understand how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8

Thanks, another good PHB example video. Yes there are many videos on PHB's, and I tried to find all I could before attempting to do this project. So with the video you provided, it showed the "sagitta" and this is the effect I was trying to describe. You can see in the video how the axles would move in opposite directions if the PHB attachment points were on opposite sides.

My design tries to get close to center of travel (hard to do with dual axles and an equalizer) and also have strength.

I drew my entire suspension is in CAD (3D), so a lot of time has been spent motion simulations. This design came about because of Cate&Rob breaking a spring hanger, so I blame Rob for all this work.

Pat

[Yoda]

Thanks, another good PHB example video. Yes there are many videos on PHB's, and I tried to find all I could before attempting to do this project. So with the video you provided, it showed the "sagitta" and this is the effect I was trying to describe. You can see in the video how the axles would move in opposite directions if the PHB attachment points were on opposite sides.

My design tries to get close to center of travel (hard to do with dual axles and an equalizer) and also have strength.

I drew my entire suspension is in CAD (3D), so a lot of time has been spent motion simulations. This design came about because of Cate&Rob breaking a spring hanger, so I blame Rob for all this work.

Pat

I agree Rob is a big problem. Cost me a lot of $$$$$$ too

[xsnrg]

My design tries to get close to center of travel (hard to do with dual axles and an equalizer) and also have strength.

Looks great, Pat, and I agree with how difficult that center of travel is to find. I only did a single axle, and found myself tweaking it a bit for weeks after to set it up how I wanted.


Jim

[Cate&Rob]

Hi Pat,

Looks Great! I”ll take the blame . . . but, thank you for doing all the work. I will be interested to learn your “dynamic evaluation” of this.
( And Yoda . . . I caught you comment too .)

[Gyrogearloose]

Rob,
The Dynamics of the articulation is my biggest concern. As long as axle springs doesn't get a loaded arch (LA) of more than about 4.5" with all the weight on the one axle (one axle fully up and the other fully dropped, like hard over a curb). But 4.5" LA spring compression would be breaking the back of the spring probably bending it.

If you noticed the rear PHB is in front of the axle. This was done for 2 reasons.
1) Fresh water drain in the way
2) As we have studied before the wild spring rotation rearward of the rear axle under heavy braking, the axle will move away from the PHB ensuring clearances. But I still don't think there would be any clearance issues if the PHB was on the other side of the axle.

Pat

[Canyonlight]

Yes, Pat - amazing work ! I to recall you, Rob, and others posting on this issue/item for sometime. Good to see it come to fruition. Feedback on the performance and tweaking will be interesting reads in the future.

Dan

[Gyrogearloose]

Hey Dan, thanks..... FYI, just noticed name change....