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  • Little braking from trailer

    2020 Imagine picked up in November. Took it out to the local college lot so the wife could practice backing up (with nothing to hit for hundreds of feet). I was checking out braking before letting her drive around the lot. My normal setting is 6 or 6.5. When I went to test braking (get up to about 10MPH and then use trailer brakes), I got very little braking. I tested at higher settings, up to max (10) and braking really didn't improve. I know the 7 pin is providing power to the brakes (tail lights on when braking). I see no grease seepage and the brakes seemed to work, though a bit soft, last outing in January. My understanding is the brakes are self adjusting after backing up. The wife backed up probably a dozen times while practicing backing straight.

    I plan on contacting my dealer when they open on Tuesday, but wonder if this covered by the full warranty from GD. Also, is anyone familiar with this type of problem?
    2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
    2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
    Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
    FMCA # 489460

  • #2
    Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
    2020 Imagine picked up in November. Took it out to the local college lot so the wife could practice backing up (with nothing to hit for hundreds of feet). I was checking out braking before letting her drive around the lot. My normal setting is 6 or 6.5. When I went to test braking (get up to about 10MPH and then use trailer brakes), I got very little braking. I tested at higher settings, up to max (10) and braking really didn't improve. I know the 7 pin is providing power to the brakes (tail lights on when braking). I see no grease seepage and the brakes seemed to work, though a bit soft, last outing in January. My understanding is the brakes are self adjusting after backing up. The wife backed up probably a dozen times while practicing backing straight.

    I plan on contacting my dealer when they open on Tuesday, but wonder if this covered by the full warranty from GD. Also, is anyone familiar with this type of problem?
    I remember a thread somewhere on proper trailer breaks needing to be broken in. It consisted of a series of stops, but I don't remember how or what speed. Meanwhile two connection areas to check. The back of the breaks where the wiring goes into thee axles and at the drums (check splices or warn wiring). Second place is the junction box where truck pig tail ties into the trailer wiring. Look for lose connections or grounds.
    Hope this helps
    Keith
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

    Comment


    • #3
      The lights and the brake signal are completely separate, so brake lights is not an indication of braking function, Brakes are powered via pin 2. Brake lights are powered by pins 5 and 6.

      The easiest way to verify the electrical side of the braking system is working is to measure current flowing through pin 2. 15-16A is normal a clamp on DC ammeter is very handy for this.

      There is a process for burnishing new brakes to reach full braking performance. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HDloz9fq8
      John & Kathy
      2014 Reflection 303RLS
      2014 F250 SC SB 6.2

      Comment


      • #4
        Running from Gnats

        Trailer brake automatic adjusters work in the forward direction (unlike auto/truck adjusters which work when backing up). A compass can be used (placed near the lower center of the brake drum) to sense whether the brake apply magnets are energizing when the brakes are applied. Measuring the current draw as mentioned in the previous post, is a better way.

        Rob
        Cate & Rob
        (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
        2015 Reflection 303RLS
        2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
        Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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        • #5
          When we got our Imagine I found 2 issues with the brakes - being horribly out of adjustment, and one axle had no brakes at all (electrical connector.)
          2017 Imagine 2650 & 2019 F-250 (Got tired of the F-150)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
            Running from Gnats

            Trailer brake automatic adjusters work in the forward direction (unlike auto/truck adjusters which work when backing up). A compass can be used (placed near the lower center of the brake drum) to sense whether the brake apply magnets are energizing when the brakes are applied. Measuring the current draw as mentioned in the previous post, is a better way.

            Rob
            I want to reiterate Rob's mention of using an old fashioned magnetic compass to verify you are getting electrical current to the brakes. Hold the compass near the back of the hub or near the bottom of the lug nuts. Note the direction the arrow on the compass is pointing. Then, have someone activate the brakes. If the compass needle moves, then the brake magnet is getting electrical current. In addition to verifying current, I second Mbopp's comments about the brakes being out of adjustment. There are quite a few YouTube videos on how to adjust them if you're interested.

            JIm
            Jim and Ginnie
            2024 Solitude 310GK
            GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
            GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

            Comment


            • #7
              We are in our second Grand Design, Solitude S 2930 with Dexter 7000 lb. axles. Brakes were very weak initially, visited with a trailer repair shop in Castle Rock, CO where the owner advised me to drag the trailer brakes hard to get heat into them. Definitely improved them to acceptable level, so I was happy. Initially had a 2014 Reflection 337, braking was OK but went through terrible grease issues with the 6000 lb. Lippert axles twice. Fast forward- we are work camping again in Pagosa Springs, CO and I decided to inspection on brakes on 7000 lb. Dexter axles, probably at most 5000 miles. First drum off, quite a bit of good quality red grease leaking past the axle seal. Correspondence with Grand Design customer service where we agreed to them sending me parts, nearest dealer 70 miles and we are full timing. Waiting patiently for parts. So would recommend to all that inspection would be prudent! Great RV in almost all other areas.
              2020 Solitude 2930RL S-Class

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              • #8
                Here's the latest on what's going on with our trailer.

                I spoke with my dealer and his suggestion was to verify the truck was sending a signal. He agreed a 7 pin tester would show voltage when the brakes were applied using the trailer controller. Testing proved there is voltage coming out of the truck. As soon as I can get my hands on a compass, I was going to pull the break-away pin and check what happens at the wheels (magnets).

                If it turns out the either the magnets don't have much of a reaction or bad grease seals, from what I read here and in another thread , this should be warranty as the trailer is just 6 months old. Only issue with taking it to the dealer, the freezer is full of food (steaks and salmon holding at 1 to -2 degrees) while we work down the main freezer in the house. So I hope it can be serviced in one day, especially since we are over 100 miles from the dealer and I really would prefer not to make two trips. I can kill a few hours in the big box stores we don't have in our area.
                Last edited by Country Campers; 05-27-2020, 07:11 PM. Reason: No links to other Fourm allowed.
                2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                FMCA # 489460

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
                  Here's the latest on what's going on with our trailer.

                  I spoke with my dealer and his suggestion was to verify the truck was sending a signal. He agreed a 7 pin tester would show voltage when the brakes were applied using the trailer controller. Testing proved there is voltage coming out of the truck. As soon as I can get my hands on a compass, I was going to pull the break-away pin and check what happens at the wheels (magnets).

                  If it turns out the either the magnets don't have much of a reaction or bad grease seals, from what I read here and in another thread , this should be warranty as the trailer is just 6 months old. Only issue with taking it to the dealer, the freezer is full of food (steaks and salmon holding at 1 to -2 degrees) while we work down the main freezer in the house. So I hope it can be serviced in one day, especially since we are over 100 miles from the dealer and I really would prefer not to make two trips. I can kill a few hours in the big box stores we don't have in our area.
                  For what it's going to cost in fuel and time, consider paying the service fee (which GD won't cover but they will cover the labor for warranty work) if GD will authorize a mobile technician to come to you. Once you've done your testing to prove where the problem is, I'd (hope) Customer Service will work with you to get it taken care of. What happens if the dealer needs a part they don't have on hand?

                  Just a thought...
                  Last edited by Country Campers; 05-27-2020, 07:13 PM. Reason: No links to other Forum allowed.
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by howson View Post

                    For what it's going to cost in fuel and time, consider paying the service fee (which GD won't cover but they will cover the labor for warranty work) if GD will authorize a mobile technician to come to you. Once you've done your testing to prove where the problem is, I'd (hope) Customer Service will work with you to get it taken care of. What happens if the dealer needs a part they don't have on hand?

                    Just a thought...
                    Point taken. I'll talk with the dealer about parts issues and GD Customer Service.

                    Norris
                    2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                    2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                    Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                    FMCA # 489460

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I checked out the electrical today. I'm seeing power at about 3 amps at pin 2 on the truck. So the truck is providing power at the plug. When plugged into the trailer, there is power at the magnets (can hear them vibrate when brake is applied). All the exposed wiring for the brakes (wiring exiting the axles to backing plates) is intact. However the pin for the brake away box is frozen in place. Short of grabbing it with vice grips and rapping the grips with a hammer, the pin will not pull. Not good since no braking if that actually was needed.

                      I am going to take the truck to the dealer where they will verify the brake controller is working. GD told me they have seen problems with factory installed brake controllers and I just want to make sure prior to having the dealer check it out. The one other thing I'm thinking about trying is to burnish the brakes by getting the rig up to 50mph, use the controller to slow the rig to 40mph and pull it for a mile (Lippert suggestion).
                      2020 F-250 Lariat 2WD SuperCrew 6.7L, Blue Ox SwayPro hitch w/ 1000lb bars
                      2020 Imagine 2600RD w/ Road Armor + wet bolt suspension, Yakima Longhaul Bike Rack, MicroAir EasyStart 364 for AC, Lion Energy 105 amp Lithiium Ion X2
                      Amateur Radio Call N9XGZ
                      FMCA # 489460

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
                        I checked out the electrical today. I'm seeing power at about 3 amps at pin 2 on the truck. So the truck is providing power at the plug. When plugged into the trailer, there is power at the magnets (can hear them vibrate when brake is applied). All the exposed wiring for the brakes (wiring exiting the axles to backing plates) is intact. However the pin for the brake away box is frozen in place. Short of grabbing it with vice grips and rapping the grips with a hammer, the pin will not pull. Not good since no braking if that actually was needed.

                        I am going to take the truck to the dealer where they will verify the brake controller is working. GD told me they have seen problems with factory installed brake controllers and I just want to make sure prior to having the dealer check it out. The one other thing I'm thinking about trying is to burnish the brakes by getting the rig up to 50mph, use the controller to slow the rig to 40mph and pull it for a mile (Lippert suggestion).
                        3 Amps is about what one brake magnet would use at 12V.
                        Dexter Chart:
                        Click image for larger version

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                        Gene and Kim
                        2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
                        2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gbkims View Post

                          3 Amps is about what one brake magnet would use at 12V.
                          Dexter Chart:
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Dexter Drum Brakes Magnet Amperes Chart.jpg
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ID:	19946
                          Yes I was going to say the same. If you’re only getting three amps you’ve got broken wires somewhere between the truck and the magnets. Could be the connectors at the brakes, that’s where I would start. I would say your brake controller is probably fine since you’re getting voltage.
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          Neil Citro
                          2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Running from Gnats View Post
                            I'm seeing power at about 3 amps at pin 2 on the truck.
                            Just curious as to how you are measuring this? If you have a DC clamp ammeter, you could use this around one of the wires going into each brake backing plate, to measure current draw for each electro-magnet.

                            Rob

                            Cate & Rob
                            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                            2015 Reflection 303RLS
                            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is it possible that there is a faulty connection in the junction box under the front of the trailer? There is a metal box that the cord from the truck connection goes into and is spliced into the trailer wiring. There may be an issue in this box.

                              Brian
                              Brian & Michelle
                              2018 Reflection 29RS
                              2022 Chevy 3500HD

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