I want to know why there are so many bent axles

[Trollst]

Look, the purpose of my post was to hilight the lack of quality we're all buying and how little attention the manufacturers are paying us. These are engineered systems, mine was obviously poorly engineered, I had issues right out of the gate, first, springs underrated for the size of the unit, once upgraded, the next link was the axles, which needed to be upgraded. My rear axle lays in my yard, it looks like limp spaghetti, the front axle has no camber left in it. Yep, I must've hit a curb, drove too fast, down too many gravel roads, got to be my fault. Well, it isn't, I'm a guy who has spent his life building custom motorcycles and cars, been a heavy equipment operator all my working life, have owned rv's for forty years, I know my stuff to be polite.
So....I upgraded to 6000 lb axles, bigger brakes and bearings, an ez flex kit along with a wet bolt kit and 4400 lb springs, gotta tell you, I have one fine riding trailer with built in safety with heavier components, the way it should have been built the first time. The question here is, how come I can do that for minimal cost but the manufacturer cannot? And, no, my trailer isn't gonna beat itself to death, it rides and handles better than its first trip, and I'm confident the unit is the trailer it should have been new.
There is no excuse for this kind of crap, these rv's are not cheap toys, costing comparably with automobiles, and autos built to poor standards don't last long in the marketplace, my trailers dry weight, (by me on scales), is 6800 lbs, minus hitch weight, no water or groceries inside. It came with a 7000 lb suspension, which quickly failed, the trailer is 30 feet long, clearly underbuilt, under engineered, I'm not happy with the response we get from the people who make them, no tsb's, no recalls, no attempt to repair their customer base.
How come thats not ok with the rest of you?

[Country Campers]

Trollst

I hear you and agree that these units are built to the minimum standards. The problem is RV manufactures have been doing it this way for quite a few years , not as much back in the 70's and 80's though. The other problem is that we , folks who can see the faults of the manufactures , are but a small group of maybe 10% of buyers. The other 90% really do not care. The only way to force the manufactures to comply with our wishes is to stop buying RV's , but again we are only 10%. It would be nice to see a manufacture step up and produce a quality , affordable RV that would result in years of enjoyment and little or no issues. I am not sure if that will ever happen but would be nice.
The minimal cost to upgrade axels or any other item at time of manufacture seems small to most of us but to the manufacture it is dollars so they do not see any reason to do that.

Brian

[Cate&Rob]

Trollst
You bring up an often discussed perspective. As Brian Country Campers describes, many of us on this forum have done exactly as you have done, bringing our trailer suspension, plumbing, wiring, etc up to the standards that we would have liked to have from the manufacturer . . . but, towable RVs don't come that way in today's market, from any manufacturer.

To your point about "autos built to poor standards don't last long in the marketplace" . . . they did when there was no better alternative available. It was not until offshore competition, with offshore labor and parts, raised the bar on quality at a competitive price that North American manufacturers had to do the same thing to sell products.

Right now, the entire towable RV industry is selling everything that they can build to their existing industry standards. Although we can say that it wouldn't cost "much more" to do things right, the manufacturers are in a price driven competition with each other, where every penny counts. What do you see as the motivator for any manufacturer to improve their quality and raise their price? Most buyers don't know or care about what goes on under their trailer or behind its walls.

Rob

[Trollst]

My trailer cost me $3600 to upgrade to a trouble free, usable anywhere I want to go state, I'm sure Grand Design can do it for half that, I'd happily pay more for a unit well made. I owned my cougar 13 years, bought it BECAUSE it was overbuilt underneath and it never gave us a squeek, after years of being hauled into remote areas. I never even had tire troubles, all I want is the same attention to quality, new cars are made better than ever, but new rv's are made worse. I don't get it.
I'm canadian, a BC'er, my Imagine lists at $52000, this is not chump change, a pretty healthy after tax dollar purchase, and I don't think asking for a quality product is too much to ask. Not only my specific complaint, but the rv industry as a whole needs to become better, from build complaints to appliances not working, common complaints that are resolved on forums like this, owners advising others for fixes, these complaints should be uncommon, rather than common, I've advised Grand Design of my displeasure, I went from a first name basis to being formally addressed by my last name at the end, clearly my contact was done with me and no longer wished to continue.
I repeat, my trailer is new, got six or seven trips on it now, there is literally no excuse for the problems we've had, or the repairs I've had to make, regardless of who pays the bills, designing a product to the bare minimum is unacceptable and we shouldn't tolerate it.

[TucsonJim]

Trollst - We hear you loud and clear. Unfortunately, these units (in their present condition) are selling faster than they can be manufactured. You sound like me. I could easily eschew the whistles and bells, and fancy furnishings in lieu of a rig built with solid quality and good bones. BTW, I bought my Keystone Cougar in 2012, and it was by far the biggest piece of junk I've ever wasted my money on. I literally could not take it on the road without spending at least $500 in repairs after every trip. Landing gear, suspension, tires, wiring, plumbing, etc. were all substandard based on my experience.

But right now, the RV companies are making a $$$ killing. I've often wondered why the RV industry has never been challenged by foreign competition.

[Cate&Rob]

I'm Canadian, a BC'er, . . . and I don't think asking for a quality product is too much to ask.

Well . . . that's the problem! LOL (kidding of course, see my signature)

Asking for a quality product does seem to be "too much ask" of this industry in their current market. If we want to take part in the RV lifestyle that we all enjoy, we have to buy what is available and make it what we really wanted it to be in the first place. Some of this is definitely on the RV manufacturer for how they assemble their products, but . . . their supply base is a mess. Sometimes, single source suppliers are all that is available for certain commodities and they are supplying crap to the entire industry. I have no doubt that every Grand Design product leaves the factory with every component and appliance tested and working correctly. I have seen this with my own eyes on many occasions. But . . . bounce that RV several thousand kilometres across the US and Canada to BC and some of these appliances will have fallen apart before they get to the dealer . . . never mind to the customer.

Don't get me started on RVIA who we pay a separate fee to look after our interests. Talk about the "fox guarding the hen house".

Trollst . . . all this to say that every regular participant on this owners forum is in full agreement with your perspective . . . there is just nothing that we can do about it.

Rob

[315RLTSinPA]

Look, the purpose of my post was to hilight the lack of quality we're all buying and how little attention the manufacturers are paying us. These are engineered systems, mine was obviously poorly engineered, I had issues right out of the gate, first, springs underrated for the size of the unit, once upgraded, the next link was the axles, which needed to be upgraded. My rear axle lays in my yard, it looks like limp spaghetti, the front axle has no camber left in it. Yep, I must've hit a curb, drove too fast, down too many gravel roads, got to be my fault. Well, it isn't, I'm a guy who has spent his life building custom motorcycles and cars, been a heavy equipment operator all my working life, have owned rv's for forty years, I know my stuff to be polite.
So....I upgraded to 6000 lb axles, bigger brakes and bearings, an ez flex kit along with a wet bolt kit and 4400 lb springs, gotta tell you, I have one fine riding trailer with built in safety with heavier components, the way it should have been built the first time. The question here is, how come I can do that for minimal cost but the manufacturer cannot? And, no, my trailer isn't gonna beat itself to death, it rides and handles better than its first trip, and I'm confident the unit is the trailer it should have been new.
There is no excuse for this kind of crap, these rv's are not cheap toys, costing comparably with automobiles, and autos built to poor standards don't last long in the marketplace, my trailers dry weight, (by me on scales), is 6800 lbs, minus hitch weight, no water or groceries inside. It came with a 7000 lb suspension, which quickly failed, the trailer is 30 feet long, clearly underbuilt, under engineered, I'm not happy with the response we get from the people who make them, no tsb's, no recalls, no attempt to repair their customer base.
How come thats not ok with the rest of you?

You forgot to change the under sized brake wires! LOL
My last trailer was built to better standards that we would all like to see. Guess what? They are out of business. As are several other manufacturers that built quality trailers. 90% of buyers want lower price over quality.

[Jeffery Thayer]

I have the Grand Design Imagine 17 Mke, XLS. Original owner, w/app., 7000 miles, is a 2021, purchased in 2020. Coming back from Colo., to home in Okla., original tires worn, on inside, down to no tread, of rear axle, only. Axle ends appear to be bent upward, just enough, to cause the severe wear, of both tires. Contacted GD, even though I had no further warranty with them, ( just to make them aware ), I was told to contact Dexter Axles. I was " quizzed "( questioned ), of all possible issues, that could be my neglect. All said and done, they ( Dexter Axles ), are sending me TWO NEW AXLES as a " courtesy gesture ". These are " Upgrade 3" diameter ". They no longer make my axle, D30, which is 2 and 3/8" diameter. They informed me, there would be no further warranty, after this.

[steve gravelle]

Great news, you probably will need new U bolts and possibly plates they bolt into. You probably knew this.

[Yoda]

What kind of place did you find to do that kind of work? Right now, the only place I could think of is the Dealer I bought it from, and I'd imagine they would just replace with OEM parts.

TucsonJim You should ask if you could have a location added to the left hand side of the forum display. Either State, or State and Town. (or Full Time) Sometimes it helps knowing where people are.

Mike
Instead of RV places for suspension/axles, check out the big trailer places PJ, Big Tex, Diamond C, etc - the folks that sell the deck over and flat bed trailers to contractors to haul equipment around. That's what I am doing for my axle replacement.

On edit - One thing to keep in mind is all RV manufacturers are weight watchers - to the point of being a bit constipated . Every lb they save is great for business and $$$ in thier pocketbook.. My old Wanderer had a 12" frame - totally overbuilt and heavy about 11K empty for 30' Now you can get a 30' at under 9K weight. Part of that is the light weight particleboard used now rather that the over plywood and real hardwood. My existing frame is 6" I think - should be eight and twice as thick. I am going to use a 7K axle tube with a 6K spindle and the bigger brakes then my 4400 lb axles have. I bent the light tube axles right at the U-Bolts on my Alaska trip.

Happy Thanksgiving
Keith

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Mike
Instead of RV places for suspension/axles, check out the big trailer places

What Keith says. The trailer shops will be much better at fixing trailers than RV dealership "technicians'. IMO.

[Guest]

For the OP, GD moved from 3500 lb axles, D rated tires and rims and 1750 lb springs on my 2017 Imagine 2600RB to 4400 lb axles, 2200 lb springs and E rated tires on the 2019 rigs. This was largely due to tire to floor contact on many of those coaches back then. We never received a recall where we should have. While we like our Imagine, this has left us a bit frustrated in how corrections to a poor design can be made due to a major engineering error with the excuse "We have the right to make changes". This should have read. "We have the right to make changes due to poor engineering at the consumers expense''. Real engineering is what's needed here. From the latest appliance disasters, systems engineering is needed rather than throwing the latest supplier sourced components on a rig with no idea in how it will function with consumers.
We still like our rig after making corrections but are concerned in where GDRV's reputation is headed. They need to do better than just having a technically savvy forum to solve their engineering problems.

Jim

[Petrovsky]

I have the Grand Design Imagine 17 Mke, XLS. Original owner, w/app., 7000 miles, is a 2021, purchased in 2020. Coming back from Colo., to home in Okla., original tires worn, on inside, down to no tread, of rear axle, only. Axle ends appear to be bent upward, just enough, to cause the severe wear, of both tires. Contacted GD, even though I had no further warranty with them, ( just to make them aware ), I was told to contact Dexter Axles. I was " quizzed "( questioned ), of all possible issues, that could be my neglect. All said and done, they ( Dexter Axles ), are sending me TWO NEW AXLES as a " courtesy gesture ". These are " Upgrade 3" diameter ". They no longer make my axle, D30, which is 2 and 3/8" diameter. They informed me, there would be no further warranty, after this.

I would say you got really lucky you fell on the right ears. Good Luck.