Question regarding wet bolts

[Tom in PGH]

The MorRyde wet bolt and shackle kit comes with instructions on orientation and torque.

Jim

That would have been nice, but it was just a bunch of parts in a cardboard box. No kit, formal packaging or instructions. I was aware to not re-use the nuts and that the bolts should have the grease hole at the 3/9 position. I’ll have to look around to find the proper torque, if I replace any. Right now, the plan is to try to back out the broken zerk and replace it with one that came in the parts box.

If the shackles are indeed heavier than what came on the trailer, I may change them out in the near future as well.

[TucsonJim]

Tom - According to the Dexter Manual, the shackle bolts should be torqued between 30-50 ft-lb. I believe that was the same for my MorRyde wet bolts. I set my wrench to 45 ft-lb. See the "Shoulder Type Shackle Bolt with 7/16" treads" below.

[Tom in PGH]

Thanks. I really appreciate this forum and the wealth of knowledge that is here.

[Lonestar]

The industry experience with wet bolts (and by several on this forum) is that the grease will more easily flow into the bushing if the grease hole is located at the lightly loaded "3 o'clock" or "9 o'clock" positions. If the grease hole is located at the top or bottom "12 o'clock" or "6 o'clock" positions it is possible that the weight of the trailer will press the bushing against the hole, preventing grease from flowing. The fix for this is usually to jack the trailer frame enough that the bushing load on the grease hole is relieved and the grease will flow. Easier yet is to install the bolts with the grease holes in the correct position in the first place.

Now, here's the problem . . . while MORryde acknowledges this logic, they supply kits with the bolts pressed into the shackles at random orientations (sometimes close to 6 and 12) When I installed my MORryde heavy duty shackle kit, I pressed out the bolts located at other than 3 and 9 and relocated these correctly. I advised MORryde, but got no response. All my wet bolts accept grease with the full trailer weight on the suspension.

Rob

I've been reading about this problem for over ten years now. Why can't the suspension manufacturers get it right? It would take all of 3 seconds to set the bolt in the correct orientation. But, it's going to take me hours to re-orient the 3 bolts that are not taking grease in my trailer.

After having the problem in my previous trailer, I specifically asked the selling dealer to check to make sure all fitting would take grease. They were replacing all the brake drums anyway, so they were right there.

Assuming they actually did....who knows. I decided to grease the fittings this week, 3 weeks out of warranty. Naturally, the 3 culprit bolts won't take grease. I tried lifting weight off the trailer and even bought a 10K psi gun. No luck. All the little things you have to clean up and repair from the factory do not bug me. This kind of stuff does!

[Cate&Rob]

I've been reading about this problem for over ten years now. Why can't the suspension manufacturers get it right? It would take all of 3 seconds to set the bolt in the correct orientation. But, it's going to take me hours to re-orient the 3 bolts that are not taking grease in my trailer.

After having the problem in my previous trailer, I specifically asked the selling dealer to check to make sure all fitting would take grease. They were replacing all the brake drums anyway, so they were right there.

Assuming they actually did....who knows. I decided to grease the fittings this week, 3 weeks out of warranty. Naturally, the 3 culprit bolts won't take grease. I tried lifting weight off the trailer and even bought a 10K psi gun. No luck. All the little things you have to clean up and repair from the factory do not bug me. This kind of stuff does!

Lonestar . . . you are "preaching to the choir" on this topic on this forum. MORryde supplies good stuff, but won't put it together correctly. Just like so many other things on our RVs . . . if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. All part of the price for participating in the RV lifestyle that we all choose.

Rob

[TucsonJim]

I've been reading about this problem for over ten years now. Why can't the suspension manufacturers get it right? It would take all of 3 seconds to set the bolt in the correct orientation. But, it's going to take me hours to re-orient the 3 bolts that are not taking grease in my trailer.

After having the problem in my previous trailer, I specifically asked the selling dealer to check to make sure all fitting would take grease. They were replacing all the brake drums anyway, so they were right there.

Assuming they actually did....who knows. I decided to grease the fittings this week, 3 weeks out of warranty. Naturally, the 3 culprit bolts won't take grease. I tried lifting weight off the trailer and even bought a 10K psi gun. No luck. All the little things you have to clean up and repair from the factory do not bug me. This kind of stuff does!

BTW - I installed my own wet bolts and I was very careful to orient the bolts with the grease holes at 3:00 or 9:00. And I still have one that won't take grease unless I jack up the trailer by the frame. I'm just thinking here.... I wonder if it would substantially weaken the bolts if you drilled all the way through the bolt so that there were exit holes for the grease 180° from each other? Cate&Rob - What are your thoughts?

[Cate&Rob]

BTW - I installed my own wet bolts and I was very careful to orient the bolts with the grease holes at 3:00 or 9:00. And I still have one that won't take grease unless I jack up the trailer by the frame. I'm just thinking here.... I wonder if it would substantially weaken the bolts if you drilled all the way through the bolt so that there were exit holes for the grease 180° from each other? Cate&Rob - What are your thoughts?

Hi Jim,

Cross drilling the bolt is an interesting concept. No different than a cotter pin hole. Another idea would be to machine a groove around the bolt in line with the one grease hole. This would allow the grease to find the best opening through 360 degrees. Engineers .

Rob

[Country Campers]

Hi Jim,

Cross drilling the bolt is an interesting concept. No different than a cotter pin hole. Another idea would be to machine a groove around the bolt in line with the one grease hole. This would allow the grease to find the best opening through 360 degrees. Engineers .

Rob

Both of these ideas would worry me , but , the weak point of the bolt may just be the threaded end with the small diameter and thread undercut. The stresses on the bolt would be at the threaded end and the splined end , the middle "should see the less stress. A cross drilled hole may weaken the center of the bolt. A shallow groove , maybe .020" to .030" deep per side may be just enough to allow grease find the easy way out. I for one do not want to try this theory and end up replacing the bolt again. Both scenarios would allow for much better grease coating around the bolt , better than a single hole on one side in hopes of grease being moved by the motion of the spring during travel around the rest of the bolt.

Too much info maybe.

Brian

[Lonestar]

Lonestar . . . you are "preaching to the choir" on this topic on this forum. MORryde supplies good stuff, but won't put it together correctly. Just like so many other things on our RVs . . . if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. All part of the price for participating in the RV lifestyle that we all choose.

Rob

I know, I know, but I'm just frustrated. I've done just about every repair over the years, and removing and re-orienting the bolts is no big deal. For me personally the big deal is supporting the trailer while I'm doing this job. I really don't like to work under things that can fall, i.e. 8K lb trailer. I've got four 3 ton jack stands that I could put under the frame, and I guess with that and all four Lippert Ground Control jacks down I should be pretty safe. And if I did one bolt at a time I could leave 3 wheels/tires on the ground at all times.

A Lippert tech did a mod on my previous trailer and he only used the legs of the front jacks to support the front of the 5th wheel, and then used jack stands on the rear.

My trailer is 3 weeks out of warranty. Wonder if GD would work with me on this?

[Canyonlight]

I know, I know, but I'm just frustrated. I've done just about every repair over the years, and removing and re-orienting the bolts is no big deal. For me personally the big deal is supporting the trailer while I'm doing this job. I really don't like to work under things that can fall, i.e. 8K lb trailer. I've got four 3 ton jack stands that I could put under the frame, and I guess with that and all four Lippert Ground Control jacks down I should be pretty safe. And if I did one bolt at a time I could leave 3 wheels/tires on the ground at all times.

A Lippert tech did a mod on my previous trailer and he only used the legs of the front jacks to support the front of the 5th wheel, and then used jack stands on the rear.

My trailer is 3 weeks out of warranty. Wonder if GD would work with me on this?

GDRV has been and industry leader in working with owners post warranty in many situations. GDRV Customer Service is 574 825 9679. Let us know how things work out.

Dan

[TucsonJim]

Another question on wet bolts for our mechanical engineer Rob Cate&Rob.

Take a look at the photo below. When the suspension is under load, the springs will be pushing against the bushings and wet bolts in the direction shown by the arrows. I know that we've been indoctrinated to install the bolts with the "hole" in the 3:00 OR 9:00 position. But wouldn't it make sense to orient the grease hole away from the applied force? This may allow for easier grease application.



Jim

[Cate&Rob]

TucsonJim
Hi Jim,

If there were forces in the direction of the arrows, the shackle plates would allow the springs to move in that direction. They have no resistance to horizontal forces. I agree that “3 or 9” is not ideal because we have seen this orientation refuse to take grease without lifting the frame (in some instances). The more that I think about it . . . a full circle groove in the bolt at the grease hole location would be ideal.

Rob

[CraigyNix]

Just joining in to ask if anyone knows if the "wet bolts" are part of the 2015 Reflection 303RLS or the 2016 Reflection 29RS? Two of us are acquiring these units and would like to see those Zerks and bolts/flanges nicely greased before we take delivery. Thanks a bunch

[Jlawles2]

@Cate&Rob I would much rather see them take the bushing and cut a spiral or hatch patter in it to allow for grease. Drilling the center of the bolt or running a groove around the center in theory sounds good, but it's the highest loaded part of the bolt in Moment stresses. If not oriented properly the hole will change the physical resistance properties (second moment of inertia) for the section, the groove also changes the properties of the bolt at that location. Pin failure has been a long discussion at work over the past decade or so.

The polymer industry has came a long way. It would not surprise me if there are polymers out there that will outlive brass bushings if corrosion is kept at bay to avoid machining the polymer out.

[Country Campers]

Just joining in to ask if anyone knows if the "wet bolts" are part of the 2015 Reflection 303RLS or the 2016 Reflection 29RS? Two of us are acquiring these units and would like to see those Zerks and bolts/flanges nicely greased before we take delivery. Thanks a bunch

I do not believe that the early models have the wet bolts. A peak at the bolts will tell you. Cate&Rob owns an early "vintage" model.

Brian