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Undersized axles on Momentum 320G or just poor design?

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  • Towed again this weekend with 4 dirtbikes and a lot of stuff removed from under my bed and front of trailer while doing a little spring cleaning when GD made me empty my trailer to weigh it. This caused some noticeable sway that hadn't been there for a while. The Dually handled it well but I could feel it tugging me a a bit.

    Paid more attention to the Pinbox in my mirror this time and it does seem to flex a bit, it appears more the pinbox to frame connection than just pinbox itself?

    We'll see what success I have with the new contact at the dealers other location trying to help me out.
    2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
    2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
    SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
    2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

    Comment


    • After making me empty trailer to weigh it they requested I fill trailer as heavy as I do for big trips so they could measure frame and axles for 3rd time. Called to schedule and Service Manager had quit. Had to start all over with a new Service Manger at their other location, 2 weeks and she quit, start over with a 3rd guy and he was a jerk and hung up on me. Went to the head Service guy for the 3 locations and seems a bit more helpful but says there is nothing he can do for me and that it has to come from Grand Design and he'll have the new Service Manager they hired contact me. Go to see that guy and he tells us that he can't do anything and that I need to go to the top guy of the company and see what he can do if he can force something on GD. WTH?

      Towed again after they made me empty trailer to weigh and while we were there we did a little spring cleaning and took out the 10 gallons of water and sodas under my bed and the sway came back even more even with the dually!

      Asked Dealer to buy to buy it back and sell us a better design, they low ball offered us less than I could get on trade in with another dealer AND their "great price because of your hassles" was only15k off MSRP of the new one they were pushing us.

      Called Grand Design multiple times and left messages to try and even just get my Case Number and Contact, never get a call back. Dealer Rep won't help me and sends me to customer rep who's line is always full and can only leave voicemail.

      In contact with a Lemon Law Lawyer now and sent them as much correspondence and information I've had.

      IF you want to actually put toys in the back of your Toy Hauler DO NOT BUY a 320G!

      If you're buying it for the extra room and bathroom and don't plan on carrying a lot you're probably okay, but will still have a light pin weight...

      If you want a Brand with a good warranty, don't think Grand Design is what they used to be, it's been a year and they can't seem to or want to help me and I have friends that are starting to have problems with GD as well.
      2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
      2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
      SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
      2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

      Comment


      • Originally posted by chikenstiker View Post
        RoyB Can I ask what you ended up doing with your trailer/truck situation? I am having the same issue as you with A LOT of sway on the highway and downhills. I've had the 320G to the dealer and GD had the measure a bunch of frame and axle dimensions which all came out correct, so they told me to tow without Water in the tank. I bought this expensive rid to camp in the middle of nowhere and bring dirt bikes. We don't wet camp, we're always in the sticks and it would be a great hassle to not carry water and then find a place at 10 PM at night on the way before we turn off the main roads and god forbid we need water a long the way for an emergency or bathroom break.

        I feel like this is just a bad design and needs to come with 8000 lbs axles from the factory and debating if that upgrade would help?

        Went camping last weekend with 3 dirt bikes in the back (usually I have 4 but ACL surgery so I'm down a few more months) and I moved as much weight as I could forward (Gear Bags in Front Bedroom, wheel chalks in Propane tank cubby) AND I brought some heavy steel targets so gimpy could shoot while family was out riding.

        CAT Scales

        Axles 14,340 (340 lbs over and that's a bike short of all other trips)
        Pin 2,480
        Pin Ration 14.7%

        Trip was horrible on sway and white knuckled on 5,000' decent!

        Dumped all water and Grey for ride and sway controllable, but still not what I'd expect from a 5th wheel and again that was with extra weight in the front and one bike missing.

        So do I upgrade to an F450 and hope the extra Payload and Stability are enough? Do I sell this camper and go another route or back to a tow behind??? Decisions......

        Side Note, I realize the truck is not enough now. I really thought an F-350 XLT was enough truck, but I was 800 lbs over Gross at the same time as not having enough pin weight....
        I know I am late to reply, but I ended up selling my 2500 late 2020 and building a new 3500. The 3500 came in spring 2021. We didn't get out a whole lot last year, but the 3500 towed the 320G much better without any toys in the back. It's a long bed crew cab. Slightly longer than my Megacab but a whole different suspension setup. Leafs vs coils. I ordered factory airbags vs aftermarket on the 2500.

        I've been comfortably towing without any toys in the back and not a whole lot of sway. I DO see it swaying a bit in the mirror, but the tires are not wearing poorly and the truck isn't being pushed around so I am just pulling it around as is. I know you had an F350 SRW. I will say in my experience that the Fords suspension seem a bit soft compared to the Rams and Chevy. Could be part of the problem. I read that you did go to a DRW. The 320G is a poorly designed camper for a toyhauler, but in my Case the Truck can compensate for the lack of proper design. Both are paid for so I am not in a rush to make any changes yet.
        2020 GD 320G
        2021 Ram 3500 H.O. SRW.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RoyB View Post

          I know I am late to reply, but I ended up selling my 2500 late 2020 and building a new 3500. The 3500 came in spring 2021. We didn't get out a whole lot last year, but the 3500 towed the 320G much better without any toys in the back. It's a long bed crew cab. Slightly longer than my Megacab but a whole different suspension setup. Leafs vs coils. I ordered factory airbags vs aftermarket on the 2500.

          I've been comfortably towing without any toys in the back and not a whole lot of sway. I DO see it swaying a bit in the mirror, but the tires are not wearing poorly and the truck isn't being pushed around so I am just pulling it around as is. I know you had an F350 SRW. I will say in my experience that the Fords suspension seem a bit soft compared to the Rams and Chevy. Could be part of the problem. I read that you did go to a DRW. The 320G is a poorly designed camper for a toyhauler, but in my Case the Truck can compensate for the lack of proper design. Both are paid for so I am not in a rush to make any changes yet.
          Yup, I bought a 3500 DRW with Factory Airbags and it mitigated much of the sway and doesn't feel so dangerous anymore, but I still get sway and after taking out all the "spare" water and soda under by bed I got a lot more "tugging" side to side on the Ram with the lightened Pin. I tow with 1,000lbs+ of Toys 90% of the time so that makes a huge difference. I've debated upgrading the Kingpin to a heavier one with suspension built in and adding shocks to the axles, but that's $2,000+ out of my pocket for what I consider a factory design issue.

          Thanks for the input that you still feel some sway without any toys in the back. It's just more and more obvious that this is not a good choice for anyone who truly uses it as a "toy Hauler".

          I've now got in contact with a higher up person at Grand Design and sent all of my information and documentation (haven't heard back a peep though), and one of the higher ups at the Dealer (though he's on "travel and won't get back to me till Friday). I feel like this is going nowhere again...

          Thanks!
          2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
          2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
          SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
          2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

          Comment


          • Originally posted by chikenstiker View Post

            Yup, I bought a 3500 DRW with Factory Airbags and it mitigated much of the sway and doesn't feel so dangerous anymore, but I still get sway and after taking out all the "spare" water and soda under by bed I got a lot more "tugging" side to side on the Ram with the lightened Pin. I tow with 1,000lbs+ of Toys 90% of the time so that makes a huge difference. I've debated upgrading the Kingpin to a heavier one with suspension built in and adding shocks to the axles, but that's $2,000+ out of my pocket for what I consider a factory design issue.

            Thanks for the input that you still feel some sway without any toys in the back. It's just more and more obvious that this is not a good choice for anyone who truly uses it as a "toy Hauler".

            I've now got in contact with a higher up person at Grand Design and sent all of my information and documentation (haven't heard back a peep though), and one of the higher ups at the Dealer (though he's on "travel and won't get back to me till Friday). I feel like this is going nowhere again...

            Thanks!
            Keep me updated. I run a Reese Goosebox since new fwiw.
            2020 GD 320G
            2021 Ram 3500 H.O. SRW.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by RoyB View Post

              Keep me updated. I run a Reese Goosebox since new fwiw.
              Got a call and was told it is my job to get the trailer balanced as I have more weight than most in the back... Was told since I'm nose up (both F350 with level kit and Ram 3500 DRW Stock) that "I" should either lower my trucks suspension or lift the trailer with some tube steel. Was told it should not void my warranty and I could call LCI to verify.

              Was told "it is what it is"

              Reese Goosebox: Do you like it? Is it a pain to lift the trailer up on the ball instead of just back in? Any issues/complaints?

              I'm highly debating upgrading the Kingpin to one with a shock or damping and in hopes of adding extra weight as far forward as I can. Was seriously considering the Reese Air Ride or the Reese Goosebox. Little more room in my bed and heavier?
              2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
              2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
              SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
              2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

              Comment


              • Originally posted by chikenstiker View Post

                Got a call and was told it is my job to get the trailer balanced as I have more weight than most in the back... Was told since I'm nose up (both F350 with level kit and Ram 3500 DRW Stock) that "I" should either lower my trucks suspension or lift the trailer with some tube steel. Was told it should not void my warranty and I could call LCI to verify.

                Was told "it is what it is"

                Reese Goosebox: Do you like it? Is it a pain to lift the trailer up on the ball instead of just back in? Any issues/complaints?

                I'm highly debating upgrading the Kingpin to one with a shock or damping and in hopes of adding extra weight as far forward as I can. Was seriously considering the Reese Air Ride or the Reese Goosebox. Little more room in my bed and heavier?
                I like it. I don't have any experience with a typical 5th wheel so I Can't really give a comparison. It's super smooth, no chucking I hear about with standard 5th wheel. You have to lift the trailer up and down with a standard hitch too. It's really easy to hook and unhook.
                2020 GD 320G
                2021 Ram 3500 H.O. SRW.

                Comment


                • I tow with a Goosebox, obviously a much lighter rig than yours, but I quite like it. It's quiet, tows nice, and when I unhook I've just got the ball and chains in the bed. Not sure on the weight difference but I took my 1621 pinbox off by hand and used the forklift at my work to lift the Goosebox lol.
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.​

                  Neil Citro
                  2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                  2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RoyB View Post

                    I like it. I don't have any experience with a typical 5th wheel so I Can't really give a comparison. It's super smooth, no chucking I hear about with standard 5th wheel. You have to lift the trailer up and down with a standard hitch too. It's really easy to hook and unhook.
                    I had very little chucking with the Companion in my F350, the Ram Came with the Ram hitch (Curt) and I get more chucking with it and it tends to pop now and then when braking or pulling at an angle. I hit Drop Front Jacks on the Auto Level and when it's done I often just pull out. The Ram then lets air out and lowers it so when I hook back up it ends up in the right spot. I like not lining it up perfectly every time, but as a Moto guy I sure wouldn't mind having my bed back. Thanks for the input!

                    Originally posted by ncitro

                    I tow with a Goosebox, obviously a much lighter rig than yours, but I quite like it. It's quiet, tows nice, and when I unhook I've just got the ball and chains in the bed. Not sure on the weight difference but I took my 1621 pinbox off by hand and used the forklift at my work to lift the Goosebox lol.
                    Used the forklift because it was heavier I assume? I like that, that would help my problem with low pin weight. If I'm going to buy a 1000-1500 pinbox I might as well try a 1600 goosebox one. Thanks!
                    2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
                    2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
                    SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
                    2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

                    Comment


                    • chikenstiker Yeah it was a beast. I used the forklift so I could align it to the holes in the wing set. You could certainly do it with two guys and setting it up on the tailgate. Then use the landing gear to raise and lower the wings into alignment. That's what I did with my buddies Gen Y, which also weighed a ton. No air bag to deal with there.

                      If you go with the Goosebox get the 20k version, it was about the same price and just had a couple reinforcement plates on it. I checked and find to use with smaller gross trailers.

                      The Goosebox maxes at 4k pin I think. The GenY is a higher max pin.
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.​

                      Neil Citro
                      2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
                      2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chikenstiker View Post

                        I had very little chucking with the Companion in my F350, the Ram Came with the Ram hitch (Curt) and I get more chucking with it and it tends to pop now and then when braking or pulling at an angle. I hit Drop Front Jacks on the Auto Level and when it's done I often just pull out. The Ram then lets air out and lowers it so when I hook back up it ends up in the right spot. I like not lining it up perfectly every time, but as a Moto guy I sure wouldn't mind having my bed back. Thanks for the input!



                        Used the forklift because it was heavier I assume? I like that, that would help my problem with low pin weight. If I'm going to buy a 1000-1500 pinbox I might as well try a 1600 goosebox one. Thanks!
                        I have the airbags on my Ram as well. If I had to do it again I would not get them. They are brutally harsh when driving unladen. I would go aftermarket like I did on my 2500. You don't have to line it up perfectly since there is some play to slide into the coupler. I do enjoy not dragging a hitch out of the truck every time I am done camping and trying to store another piece of equipment. My main driving factor was because my 2500 didn't have any 5th wheel prep. It was much easier to add a gooseball vs 4 pucks.

                        I don't know how your weight distribution is, but I moved EVERYTHING to the front of the camper. Mainly to get weight off the axles. I put some shelves in the generator enclosure and have 4 bins + the generator up front. All my water connections, levelers, wood blocks, misc stuff. I then moved as much as I could under the front bunk. I have a 2nd spare, my tools (drill, fasteners, electrical connectors), camping chairs, fire starter logs, it's packed. I took the table out of the rear bunks since we never use it. Put all the spare linens from the back bunk to the loft. Just moved as much weight to the front as I could. It helped a lot. My numbers might be on the earlier posts in this thread.

                        We have an ATV trip coming up and there's no hookups. That means full water tank, full fuel tank and 2 x ATVs. It was close with the Harley and only a little fuel in the tank.
                        2020 GD 320G
                        2021 Ram 3500 H.O. SRW.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ncitro View Post
                          chikenstiker Yeah it was a beast. I used the forklift so I could align it to the holes in the wing set. You could certainly do it with two guys and setting it up on the tailgate. Then use the landing gear to raise and lower the wings into alignment. That's what I did with my buddies Gen Y, which also weighed a ton. No air bag to deal with there.

                          If you go with the Goosebox get the 20k version, it was about the same price and just had a couple reinforcement plates on it. I checked and find to use with smaller gross trailers.

                          The Goosebox maxes at 4k pin I think. The GenY is a higher max pin.
                          I did it at the RV dealer when picking mine up. Just the wife and I. Set it up on the tailgate as you did and got a couple bolts started and it wasn't that bad. I have since raised the hitch up a set of holes and there's enough play that you can keep 1 set of bolts in and angle it up to get the 2nd set started. I agree on the 20K. That's what I did.
                          2020 GD 320G
                          2021 Ram 3500 H.O. SRW.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ncitro View Post
                            chikenstiker Yeah it was a beast. I used the forklift so I could align it to the holes in the wing set. You could certainly do it with two guys and setting it up on the tailgate. Then use the landing gear to raise and lower the wings into alignment. That's what I did with my buddies Gen Y, which also weighed a ton. No air bag to deal with there.

                            If you go with the Goosebox get the 20k version, it was about the same price and just had a couple reinforcement plates on it. I checked and find to use with smaller gross trailers.

                            The Goosebox maxes at 4k pin I think. The GenY is a higher max pin.
                            How would you compare the Goosebox vs Gen Y? That was one of the others I was debating when looking at the Reese Airborne thinking no bag or shocks = less to go wrong and they look heavy duty!
                            2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
                            2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
                            SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
                            2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

                            Comment


                            • RoyB ncitro

                              What Ball height did you end up with to get your assuming 6" bed clearance? I was looking at the B&W 2" with removal handle and chain holders.
                              2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
                              2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
                              SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
                              2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RoyB View Post

                                I have the airbags on my Ram as well. If I had to do it again I would not get them. They are brutally harsh when driving unladen. I would go aftermarket like I did on my 2500. You don't have to line it up perfectly since there is some play to slide into the coupler. I do enjoy not dragging a hitch out of the truck every time I am done camping and trying to store another piece of equipment. My main driving factor was because my 2500 didn't have any 5th wheel prep. It was much easier to add a gooseball vs 4 pucks.

                                I don't know how your weight distribution is, but I moved EVERYTHING to the front of the camper. Mainly to get weight off the axles. I put some shelves in the generator enclosure and have 4 bins + the generator up front. All my water connections, levelers, wood blocks, misc stuff. I then moved as much as I could under the front bunk. I have a 2nd spare, my tools (drill, fasteners, electrical connectors), camping chairs, fire starter logs, it's packed. I took the table out of the rear bunks since we never use it. Put all the spare linens from the back bunk to the loft. Just moved as much weight to the front as I could. It helped a lot. My numbers might be on the earlier posts in this thread.

                                We have an ATV trip coming up and there's no hookups. That means full water tank, full fuel tank and 2 x ATVs. It was close with the Harley and only a little fuel in the tank.
                                I really like the Ram air bags, it auto levels, I never have to mess around with trying to adjust pressure and the ride is super nice. I was warned it would be rough, but I find the ride no worse than my F350 was except the occasional big bump like a RR crossing or when I have just enough weight in the back the airbags stiffen a bit otherwise it's pretty decent.

                                I have made a roller drawer in my Pass-Through to move my BBQ, Skillet, a 5 gal LP tank, Chainsaw, chemicals, etc to. I store my heavy 50 Amp cable above the generator and next to generator have interlocking Milwake tool boxes with tools, Steel targets, extras, etc in them. Gear bags, extra water, soda, tables, ammo, boots, etc all in my bedroom.

                                In my garage I store chairs and 2 plastic folding tables, that's it beside bicycles or dirt bikes depending on the trip. Never have more than 1/3 fuel in the fuel station for weight and carry fuel for bikes in the bed of truck. Grand Design said I need to move more weight forward, but don't see how I can unless I put kitchen crap in my bedroom. LOL
                                2021 320G 3 Awnings, Patio Kit, 3 Season Doors, 3 ACs, Upgraded Stereo, 400 Watt Solar, Chins 300 mah Lithium Smart Battery, Progressive Dynamics 60A Converter
                                2022 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB w/ Air
                                SOLD 2019 F-350 XLT CCLB B&W Companion Hitch, Airlift Air Bags, Upgraded F/R Sway Bars, Leveled on 34s.
                                2020 KTM 250 XC-f, 2019 KTM 300 XC, 2021 GasGas EX250f, 2021 KTM 125 XC, 2021 Kawi KLX140f/g

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