Oil Bath Bearing Conversion

[Jlawles2]

Expect to pick up our Reflection 303RLS next week. After experiencing a major failure on an axle with a different brand coach, I am considering changing from greased bearings to oil bath bearings. Anyone have any experience with doing this to their coach? Pros or cons to changing from greased to oil bearings?

I have 3 hubs with heat marks on the bearings plus the failed hub and am concerned that the mfg bearing packing and assembly procedures leave a lot to be desired. After replacing the axles in a hotel parking lot and returning home, I found that the bearing preload was outside the MFG spec (these axles were custom built and shipped under warranty from MFG). Upon using the coach for 3 other trips, each time returning home and pulling the wheels I found that at least one bearing preload had changed. Each one was different each time, but the average was one flat plus from finger tight. I'm not a big fan of the new nut retainer on the ez lube axles along with the size of the washer under and play in the anti rotation "D" notch.

[Country Campers]

Jlawles2

I do appreciate your concern with the axels and bearings. I do not have any experience with oil bath other than maintenance on big rigs , a whole other story. We have had our Reflection for three years of use. The first year that I did the bearing service I did not find anything wrong. At that time I did replace the bearings with Timken brand and the seal as well. Each year since there have been no issues. I do not do the recommended routine that Dexter says to do when setting preload , torque to 50# then back off and finger tight. I use my own method that has worked for me for many years of trailer use and have never had a problem. I think the yearly maintenance and bearing repack is key to the longevity of the bearing life. The load on each tire is important to watch. I am interested in this process if you go this route.

Brian

[Guest]

Expect to pick up our Reflection 303RLS next week. After experiencing a major failure on an axle with a different brand coach, I am considering changing from greased bearings to oil bath bearings. Anyone have any experience with doing this to their coach? Pros or cons to changing from greased to oil bearings?

I have 3 hubs with heat marks on the bearings plus the failed hub and am concerned that the mfg bearing packing and assembly procedures leave a lot to be desired. After replacing the axles in a hotel parking lot and returning home, I found that the bearing preload was outside the MFG spec (these axles were custom built and shipped under warranty from MFG). Upon using the coach for 3 other trips, each time returning home and pulling the wheels I found that at least one bearing preload had changed. Each one was different each time, but the average was one flat plus from finger tight. I'm not a big fan of the new nut retainer on the ez lube axles along with the size of the washer under and play in the anti rotation "D" notch.

That's a problem since the spec is finger tight after torquing to 50 ft lbs and then without rotating the hub to loosen then finger tighten the nut. Its never acceptable to go one slot/flat beyond finger tight but one less is acceptable if if the prior slot cannot be reached.

The 50 ft lb pre-load becomes critical when replacing races since this process ensures the race is properly seated in the hub. However, folks with experience can feel when the race is seated since the punch will bounce and have a completely different feel.

If oil sealing is secured, oil lubed bearings would be fine. But since my Lippert axle leaked a small amount of grease beyond the seals back when the rig was under warranty, I would not feel confident to ever convert to oil bath.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

Jlawles2

I have no direct experience with oil bath systems, but I understand (from previous posts on this forum) that the seal is a two part device with an inner that stays fixed to the spindle and an outer that turns with the hub.

Many thousands of trailers travel many more tens of thousands of miles on grease lubricated bearings. This is the industry standard. My experience is that discoloured bearings were running too tight. Spindle nuts that “become loose” would tell me that the races were not properly seated in the hub. The torque to 50 before loosening off is supposed to assure proper seating of the races.

Properly seated, adjusted and greased bearings are good for thousands of miles. Even the ones from off shore manufacturers. (In my experience).

Rob

[Guest]

Additional opinions on a comparison of the two types. The sealing is actually similar between the two where one seal type is made for grease and the other for oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnggjwKx7P4

Jim

[Jlawles2]

Cate&Rob Rob, the issue I had with the axle was on the maiden voyage and 500 miles from home at the beginning of day 2 (less than 75 miles traveled that day). All hubs were full of grease upon disassembly and the one that went on vacation left grease in its wake. So lubrication was not an issue. All of the discolored races were on hubs with 1 flat or more of slack in bearings. I temp checked the hubs at every stop the day before. All tire pressures verified that morning before we left the campground. I know stuff just happens, but nothing pointed toward failure. I have been cleaning and replacing bearings since before I could drive as all of the 70's and 80's model cars in the family had tapered rolling bearing hubs. That was the first failure of its type I had ever seen. I do own 2 other trailers both with grease bearing hubs, but they tend to stay a lot closer to home.

Guest can you go into detail on the grease beyond seal? That brings up interesting issues in the spindle itself that have me concerned as a lifetime do it yourself mechanic and engineer.

[Jlawles2]

Guest Nice video, but there are a couple of things that are not right. Grease is flammable, grease will liquify and get everywhere (been there done that) and now you have a flying sticky flaming mess, and if you read the Dexter and Lippert procedure for greasing, you must jack up the unit and turn the wheel while hand pumping grease only. Oil bearings tend to run cooler than grease bearings and it only takes a few feet before the oil is in everything. I have seen grease bearings with all of the grease solidified on one side of the hub (aka it liquified during travel then solidified when parked).

[Guest]

Cate&Rob Rob, the issue I had with the axle was on the maiden voyage and 500 miles from home at the beginning of day 2 (less than 75 miles traveled that day). All hubs were full of grease upon disassembly and the one that went on vacation left grease in its wake. So lubrication was not an issue. All of the discolored races were on hubs with 1 flat or more of slack in bearings. I temp checked the hubs at every stop the day before. All tire pressures verified that morning before we left the campground. I know stuff just happens, but nothing pointed toward failure. I have been cleaning and replacing bearings since before I could drive as all of the 70's and 80's model cars in the family had tapered rolling bearing hubs. That was the first failure of its type I had ever seen. I do own 2 other trailers both with grease bearing hubs, but they tend to stay a lot closer to home.

Guest can you go into detail on the grease beyond seal? That brings up interesting issues in the spindle itself that have me concerned as a lifetime do it yourself mechanic and engineer.

Nice to have another engineer. I worked long ago as a diesel tech which took its toll on my body so I earned an engineering degree to do something much less physical for a living. A few years back there were a rash of grease seal failures on Lippert axles which ended up coating the brakes with grease. Lippert made good on the issue for folks. The cause of the issue was never really determined but some believe the initial fill was too aggressive where the hubs were over-pressured to coat the brakes with grease. Others suspect the seals were not greased and were ran dry. Some also noticed the spindle surface was rough. A known issue was the water thin black grease that was in the factory fill where Lippert moved to a thicker red grease.

Your bearings must have clearance for grease so after a pre-load and completely loosening the nut (without rotating the hub), the nut must be hand tight only. No tools used for this part of the process.

The only issue I recall on Dexter axles was a recall where some axles were built without a bearing race.

Jim

[Jlawles2]

The axle was part of the recall. I found the instructions online and checked them before I took it back to the dealer where I had to spend 8 hrs only to find out they had supposedly already checked them before delivery to me, but could not tell me that before I spent the day there waiting on it. Either they fixed it before we picked it up, or ours had the races installed.

I've always hand tightened the nuts on axles while spinning the hub until it freely rotates when spun.

According to the manuals, if you do not spin the wheel while greasing it can build up between the bearing and the seal and push the seal out causing a leak.

[Cate&Rob]

Jlawles2

If you want to convert to oil bath bearings, many on this forum will be interested in how that works out. I don’t think you will be able to convince the vast majority of owners who are comfortable with decades of successful experience with greased bearings to change, without a good reason. I do wonder if your experience has to do with the type of grease used. I only use Lucas Red’n’Tacky. Across several trailers used frequently or parked for long periods, I have never seen the grease unevenly distributed as you describe.

Rob

[Guest]

The axle was part of the recall. I found the instructions online and checked them before I took it back to the dealer where I had to spend 8 hrs only to find out they had supposedly already checked them before delivery to me, but could not tell me that before I spent the day there waiting on it. Either they fixed it before we picked it up, or ours had the races installed.

I've always hand tightened the nuts on axles while spinning the hub until it freely rotates when spun.

According to the manuals, if you do not spin the wheel while greasing it can build up between the bearing and the seal and push the seal out causing a leak.

I suspect that your axles were inspected and based on your feedback, over-tightened. If you have bearings and races that are blue in color, they should be replaced and the Dexter or Lippert manual followed for pre-loading and setting the bearing clearance.

Greasing the hubs and setting the bearing clearance are two different procedures. Greasing the hubs is another area where most folks do not use the EZ-Lube fitting to grease the hubs but rely only on the old fashioned hand packing method.

I agree with Rob that folks are very satisfied with grease in their bearing hubs and most likely would not switch to oil hubs based on a history of success.

Jim

[Guest]

Something else to consider if wanting to convert: The conversion kits will come with a pressed in cap that is threaded on the outside to accept an oil bath cap. This press in design will most likely leak where a hub that is designed for oil bath will be threaded to directly accept the oil bath cap. If I were to consider converting, I would replace the hubs to the oil bath threaded hub design to avoid leakage.

https://www.etrailer.com/p-XLPROLUBE1980KIT.html

Jim

[Jlawles2]

That's one of the downsides to the oil bath conversion. Kinda wish they had thought to put an o-ring in there to help seal with the interference fit of the cap. If I had access to a Lathe, it might be worth making my own hub conversions.

[Guest]

A threaded hub/cap for both cases would make a single hub design possible.

Jim

[Jlawles2]

Guest Don't know why they don't do threaded caps. I grew up around old 8N tractors and all of those had screw caps. If they could do something so simple back in the dark ages of the 1940's where all of that was most likely manual machining, you would think with today's technology it would be a no brainer for a CNC to crank out hubs. Oh wait that takes an extra 45 seconds out of production b/c they need to change tooling to do the threading.

And it cuts out the aftermarket sales of stuff by their sister company. https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bea...BE2440KIT.html since DexKo owns both of the companies.