No brakes!!!

[Livin' the Dream]

• My wife and I full time in our 2021 390RK-R. We left Clinton, MO and arrived in Minneapolis, MN in order to pack up and close on the house we sold. We had an issue with one of our slides and made an appointment to have it looked at. When we hook our trailer we do the "tug test" each and every time, checking that the hitch is locked and the trailer brakes work. We did so, when leaving Clinton, but when we left our park site in Mpls. I didn't have any brakes. I checked to see if there was any sign of brake fluid on the ground at our site....nada, zippo, zilch. The service manager called later in the day and said I had no brake fluid in the reservoir. They had to order brake fluid and called me the next day and told me the crimp in the brake line at the left rear axel had broke loose. So somewhere on I-35 there's a brake fluid slick with my name on it!!!! I called GD to report the issue and the person I talked with seemed like it was just another simple problem. NOT!!!! This is a life safety issue!!! Thank God we were traveling on fairly flat roads without any steep grades to navigate. Had this happened while we were in the mountains of CO the story could have been much worse. I've seen other posts where people have had brake issues as well and all I hear is crickets from GD.

[ThePowells]

Gary and Carla, First we are glad that there wasn't any damage or injuries. You can report this to NHTSA and if they recieve multiple reports of similar issues, they can investigate and if needed force a recall. I am puzzled by the termonolgy of a "crimp" failing. A crimp is termonolgy generally used for electrical connections and wonder it shouldn't be "flare" which is the end of the line where it connects to next line or hose. Flare issues are usually from it splitting when being formed and if not caught before installation will usually leak during the bleeding process as the threads are not sealed. This confusion also makes me ask to be sure, but it sounds like you have either the disc brake or IS upgrade. I know the IS w/ brakes is a Morryde installation, but if just the disc brakes, who did that istallation?

[bertschb]

... but if just the disc brakes, who did that istallation?

I'm pretty sure Grand Design offers disc brakes as an option on Solitudes now.

[Cate&Rob]

Livin' the Dream

Not to minimize the potential severity of loss of brake function, but the message here is that you discovered the problem by doing the pre-travel pull test. This is a good reminder to everyone on this forum. There are many possible causes for loss of trailer brake function and the only way to know the status of your brakes is to do the pull test that Gary and Carla describe. I do this at the beginning of every trip and after every stop along the way. You can even do this at a stop light, or in stop-and-go traffic.

As to the failed "crimp" connection on the brake line . . . do you have any pictures that might help to determine whether this was a component failure or an improper installation? Something that both Grand Design and other owners with this system could inspect for.

Rob

[ThePowells]

bertschb Maybe on of the mods can tell us at what point the disc brake option is actually installed and who does it (Grand Design or LCI)?
My controller failed and I felt it well before my next stopping point with electric drum brakes. I would have thought the effect would be magnified with the disc brake upgrade.

[Guest]

There are SAE specifications to be met that if your within the tow capability of your vehicle, it will stop your trailer without trailer brakes. SAE uses a lower speed in doing this where I've not read the entire document but perhaps they have determined a test that can account for reasonable increased braking effort while still being safe.

Ok I have to get back to stressing over selling two houses while signing for a third with no space for my Imagine. Can't wait to get this behind me as I'm in hell. Lol.

Jim

[Cate&Rob]

There are SAE specifications to be met that if your within the tow capability of your vehicle, it will stop your trailer without trailer brakes. SAE uses a lower speed in doing this where I've not read the entire document but perhaps they have determined a test that can account for reasonable increased braking effort while still being safe.

Jim

Although trailers over 3000 lbs are required to have brakes (in most jurisdictions), Jim is correct that per SAE J2807 every truck is required to be able to stop its GCWR without assistance from the trailer brakes. The logic being that there is no way for the truck manufacturer to know how effective the trailer brakes are. The test requirement is 20 MPH to stopped in less than 80 ft. There is no higher speed test requirement. There is no trailer brake performance requirement (that I am aware of) other than "it has functioning brakes".

Rob

[JeffC]

First, what a PITA and I'm glad no one has been hurt or equipment damaged.

We travel all over AZ and CO where there are long steep grades and using our truck's engine and transmission, I rarely have to tap the brakes. So, be assured that if you do run into this issue again (hopefully not!), you can safely tow down a mountain without your trailer brakes. I'm not saying that you want to, but you can if you have to. Approach downhill slopes slowly and stay in the lower gears. Judicious use of your truck brakes will get you to flat ground.

Pictures will be helpful for others when you determine the problem.

[Guest]

First, what a PITA and I'm glad no one has been hurt or equipment damaged.

We travel all over AZ and CO where there are long steep grades and using our truck's engine and transmission, I rarely have to tap the brakes. So, be assured that if you do run into this issue again (hopefully not!), you can safely tow down a mountain without your trailer brakes. I'm not saying that you want to, but you can if you have to. Approach downhill slopes slowly and stay in the lower gears. Judicious use of your truck brakes will get you to flat ground.

Pictures will be helpful for others when you determine the problem.

Jeff,

Great scenario based analysis on your experience in the Rockies with a RV brake failure. The key here of coarse is paying attention and maintaining a reasonable following distance at all times. In using the methods you have described, the situation can be handled safely. I've been all over the west calibrating performance cars, hybrids and some HD trucks on Davis Dam, Bakers Grade, Mesa, Yuma, etc and just love it our there. These conversations take me right back.

Rob, spot on with the SAE cert. details. Folks should know that their trucks are certified to handle these situations where loading is a critical component in that certification.


Jim

[Jimmer]

Many people do not flush the brake fluid in their cars/trucks. DOT 4 Brake fluid has a boiling point of 230 degrees C when fresh, and 155 degrees C when it's "wet." As the brake fluid ages, it absorbs water. Water has a much lower boiling point than oil. When something boils, it creates air. Air in a brake system means significantly reduced brakes. If you lose the brakes on your trailer, you want your tow vehicle brakes to be handle the extra heat that is generated when stopping.

Make sure you all are flushing your tow vehicle brake fluid at least every 3 years. Some car manufacturers specify every 2 years.

[Petrovsky]

Quite right Jim. DOT 3 & DOT 4 are glycol based hydraulic fluids. Glycol is hygroscopic thus it absorbs ambient moisture over time. DOT 5 fluid is silicone based. It is expensive compared to the former and is not hygroscopic. However, it cannot be intermixed with DOT3 or DOT4 due to its chemical composition. You could flush out your brake system and replace it with DOT5 but you need to make sure that your brake system can handle it as many are not designed for it.

My GMC manual states I have DOT 4 and the service section suggests changing it after 5 years whereas both Volks and Toyota suggest 3 years. I lease the truck but I have replaced the fluid in both vehicles.

[Livin' the Dream]

Obviously, I haven't been back to this page since I wrote the initial post. We've been busy packing up two homes and my woodworking shop and are now we're back on the road.

To answer a couple of questions.

The brake line is a metal line from the pump back to the axel, but because the axels move up and down, there has to be a flexible hose that has crimped ends to connect the line to the disc brakes and one of those crimps failed.

I do have the engine exhaust brake (Jake brake) to help facilitate braking, but if the Jake brake fails then what? Why do you think there are truck "runaway" ramps in the mountains. It's not because the Jake brakes are infallible. Jake brakes are designed to assist in the braking of a vehicle going down long descents, not to replace your vehicles brake system.

[Ryan]

...

I do have the engine exhaust brake (Jake brake) to help facilitate braking...

Be careful. An exhaust brake and a Jake brake are NOT the same thing. In fact they work by totally opposite means. It's not germane to this discussion, but it could be in another someday.

I think all heavy-duty diesel trucks (GM, Ford, Dodge) have engine exhaust brakes nowadays. I don't know that any have Jake brakes (compression brakes vs exhaust brakes). I know GM doesn't. I don't know anything about Ford or Dodge, but I expect it's quite unlikely.

Anyway ... it's just a consideration for future conversations. Words mean something. Just be careful conflating the two systems if you're ever in a conversation where it could matter.