Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Reflection 220RK 6K Axle Upgrade Discussion - and help

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Yoda I went with the CRE3000 and heavy-duty shackle solutions for two reasons. First, lots of people had already installed that solution on our model of trailer, meaning the fit would be good. Second, I saw online stories of their customer support being top-notch, and I can say their support was very helpful when I contacted them. However, I would say all the upgrade equalizers are good choices and better than the solid OEM, although you already have that removed.
    2019 Imagine 2400BH
    2019 F150 XLT Super Crew, EcoBoost, 6.5' box, Max tow package with 3.55 ratio

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Yoda View Post
      ncitro Cate&Rob acoleman43 ncitro

      Thanks for the advice. I have a good selection of sockets, c-clamps and several vices, so it sounds like I can do this. Then again maybe one of the shop's will impress me to have them do it correctly. Lots of questions to ask this week in my search. I still need to reach out to several axle suppliers.

      Cutting and baling hay got in the way a bit - it was a very thick crop as I did not get a first cutting before my Alaska trip.

      I was going to reuse the E-Z Flex equalizer (they survived the Alaska trip and appear to be in perfect condition). I was going to replace the bushing though. But now you have me thinking I should upgrade. Is the CRE3000's the best? It does not have the independent damping the EZ Flex has and my units are still good.

      To be continued
      Thanks
      Keith
      In my opinion if you were thinking about changing the equalizer, now is the time. If you are happy with your current equalizer keep it and save some $$.

      The CRE3000 and SRE4000 will add a little to height. The CRE3000 added about 1/2" height to my trailer. I understand the SRE4000 adds about 1" height. The advertised advantage of the CRE300 is adding "up to 3" of suspension travel". the SRE4000 is advertised to add "up to 4" of suspension travel". All I know is the CRE3000 did improve the towing slightly vs OEM. I don't know much about the EZ-Flex at all so I can't really compare.
      Allen

      2021 Momentum 21G

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by StephenO View Post
        Yoda I went with the CRE3000 and heavy-duty shackle solutions for two reasons. First, lots of people had already installed that solution on our model of trailer, meaning the fit would be good. Second, I saw online stories of their customer support being top-notch, and I can say their support was very helpful when I contacted them. However, I would say all the upgrade equalizers are good choices and better than the solid OEM, although you already have that removed.
        Actually the trailer cam with the EZ-Flex. Suspension is stock.
        Keith
        2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

        Comment


        • #19
          OK I had a very interesting visit with a trailer dealer today. They sell Big Tex trailers and do full axle service. The shop foreman mentioned that the 3" axle tubes are the weak link and even if I go to 6000 lb axles the tubes are all the same from 4400 to 8K unless I go to a 3.5" tube

          He told me where to look for the bent tube and Yep its the tub that is bent at the U-bolts,
          Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1239s.jpg
Views:	281
Size:	81.4 KB
ID:	94801
          Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1240s.jpg
Views:	248
Size:	110.2 KB
ID:	94802
          Both are of the same axle, but you can see the slightest bed right at the U-bolts. The bowed curve is still present inboard, but does not carry outboard.

          He indicated to cure this I need to go with a 3.5" tube and Dexter no longer makes a 3" heavy wall tube axle. the custom axles would be 1400 each excluding springs.

          Tomorrow I will be checking out the Rockwell dealer just over the border and see what they say on the tube strength.

          Thoughts

          Keith
          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

          Comment


          • #20
            Yoda

            I recall LCI information from several years back, that their axle tube wall thickness increased with axle weight capacity. I will be interested to learn if the axle manufacturer(s) confirm this “all 3” tubes are the same” information from the axle repair shop.

            Rob
            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

            Comment


            • #21
              Forgive my ignorance but, if the axles are out of alignment and are the culprit of excess tire wear…why would going with heavier axles be advised over an axle alignment? I hesitate going with higher capacity axles or springs on my 303rls fearing more of the uneven roads and bump shocks will then be transferred to the frame. I don’t trust the flimsy frames on these units either.
              Vivian
              2018 Reflection 303rls
              Ford F-350 diesel long bed 4 x 4 SRW
              Demco Recon

              Comment


              • #22
                Beachcamper

                You are correct that stronger springs are not the right answer for damaged suspension. Springs should be matched to the weight of the trailer such that their entire range is used to cushion road impacts. Stronger springs mean a rougher ride for everything in the trailer. But . . . suspension components that are bending, breaking or wearing out can be strengthened or improved without increasing spring strength. In Yoda’s experience, it looks like the trip to Alaska bent his axle tubes. Thus, the remedy should be stronger axle tubes . . . not stronger springs. Better quality springs of the same spring rate might be a valid consideration.

                ​​​​​​​Rob
                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #23
                  This has already been a great thread full of information I did not know. Yoda Thank you for your troubles
                  Allen

                  2021 Momentum 21G

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                    Beachcamper

                    You are correct that stronger springs are not the right answer for damaged suspension. Springs should be matched to the weight of the trailer such that their entire range is used to cushion road impacts. Stronger springs mean a rougher ride for everything in the trailer. But . . . suspension components that are bending, breaking or wearing out can be strengthened or improved without increasing spring strength. In Yoda’s experience, it looks like the trip to Alaska bent his axle tubes. Thus, the remedy should be stronger axle tubes . . . not stronger springs. Better quality springs of the same spring rate might be a valid consideration.

                    Rob
                    Rob, if axle tubes go from original weight rating to a higher rating, wouldn’t the springs also have to go to a higher rating?





                    Vivian
                    2018 Reflection 303rls
                    Ford F-350 diesel long bed 4 x 4 SRW
                    Demco Recon

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Beachcamper View Post
                      Forgive my ignorance but, if the axles are out of alignment and are the culprit of excess tire wear…why would going with heavier axles be advised over an axle alignment? I hesitate going with higher capacity axles or springs on my 303rls fearing more of the uneven roads and bump shocks will then be transferred to the frame. I don’t trust the flimsy frames on these units either.
                      Nothing to forgive here - questions or thoughts are always welcome. Your are correct, going too heavy can put loads on the frame and the trailer not accounted for in the original design.
                      If the tube is the weak point no matter what capacity you go with - the bend will occur at the same spot. Yes the cure is simple - just re-bend /align the tube. He wont re-bend axle tubes - period. The steel has already yielded to bend in the first place, and no matter how much you bend back/align, it will never be as strong as when first installed. Thus going to a heavier wall tube is what is recommended and the civil engineer in me agrees. The springs have also yielded (not broken or failed), I just wore them out. - thus going heavier is in order. You can use a heavier tube and your stock springs if you wish and the frames can easily be strengthened with a little boxing or gussets. The dealer will do a full frame inspection and I plan to have the rear jack attachment points widened and gussets added - then flex way to much on uneven ground, even though they have a 2" tube added like over the axles.

                      For those wondering about the steel yielding, its the point at which the steel exceed is strength and bends permanently, and not just flexing.. Think about this - take a steel paper clip and bend it out of shape - can you ever bend it exactly back into the shape it was? And if you keep bending at some point it will break. That is what has happened to my axle - it bent permently.

                      Cate&Rob Rob - in going through Dexter's web pages and catalogs they only mention one 3 in tube from 4400 to 8000lb, Above 8 k it is all 3.5" tube. 3.5" tube is optional from 6 to 8K. I can find nothing on wall thickness or and difference mentioned. My build sheet mentions 3" Lt wall. I will be calling Dexter tomorrow to verify. However it makes sense to standardize on one 3" tube to make production easier, From what I learned today the are now really only 2 axle makers in the US now. Dexter and Lippert and much of Lippert is China. Even Dexter is shopping parts out too. In my first post I have links to Dexter's catalogs.

                      So folks know the roads I traveled to Alaska, especially the Alcan highway in Canada (sorry Rob) were very rough with huge surprise frost heaves and potholes. No matter how slow you drove you were going to hit one no matter what. I think by going to the 16" tires and the extreme roads, it was just a bit more than the tube could take. Nothing else broke or bent - well except the particle board bracing for cabinets and drawers (shame on GD for that ) Solid wood or metal L bracing should have been used. in those places.

                      The dealer admitted that he has had to upgrade to bigger tubes on some BigTex trailers he sold when they are operated at capacity. That is the solution that has worked for his business and I got the feeling BigTex is covering this added warranty expense as he had several sets of oversized tube replacement axles in stock for customers. For the majority of owners the axles used bu the OEM will survive the life of the trailer - then there are those of us the utilize 100% and over time the weak link will show up. Broken springs, broken hangers, and for me a bent tube.

                      BTW - The weight difference between a stock 3" tube (I could lift one end of the axle) and the 3.5" tube (that I could barely lift).

                      I went through this same issue with a 2001 Thor Wonderer. Bent the stock 3500 lb axles in the first year of use. The dealer recommended a local Grand Junction spring shop (Thor would not cover) to put on Quality Brand 6K axles and no further issues. That trailer was heavy 12K dry weight for 30 feet, but cabinets were solid plywood and frame was heavier. (10 or 12" I beam boxed) Quality ws bought by Dexter years ago from what I know.

                      More to come

                      I hope this information us useful so others have a base to work from should they find themselves in a similar situation. I know I am learning a lot. If not please let me know.

                      Keith
                      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Yoda in searching the internet it looks like all Dexter light duty axles (up to 8K) have 0.16" axle wall thickness. It seems the difference in the light duty axles is the camber of the axles.

                        let us know what you find out. This is interesting.
                        Allen

                        2021 Momentum 21G

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post
                          Yoda in searching the internet it looks like all Dexter light duty axles (up to 8K) have 0.16" axle wall thickness. It seems the difference in the light duty axles is the camber of the axles.

                          let us know what you find out. This is interesting.
                          Where did you find that information? It would help here.. ,16" is pretty thin

                          Thanks
                          Keith
                          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Yoda View Post

                            Where did you find that information? It would help here.. ,16" is pretty thin

                            Thanks
                            Keith
                            etrailer
                            Allen

                            2021 Momentum 21G

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              acoleman43 Cate&Rob Beachcamper ncitro

                              OK
                              After talking to several distributors I was getting a lot of conflicting information so I called Dexter.
                              "
                              I talked with a Dexter Co distributor. Yes all stock 3" tubes are the same .16" up through 7K. However a HD 3" tube is available that is 3/16 0.i875" So unless the HD tube was specified you get the stock. The only way to know what you have is contact them withe the axle tag information (serial number).They did not have the wall thickness on the 3.5" tube available. However she priced out a complete axle and breaks for me with the 3.5" tube at $732, Shipping is estimated to be $200 each So now I have options. She is supposed to email me the configuration to check. I still plan to visit the Rockwell dealer and contact the other Dexter CO dealer acoleman43 - I called Etrailer and the verified the ,16, but they were unaware of the heavy wall option - they just stock the standard configuration Dexter makes for the RV industry.

                              I have several email out for information

                              Bottom line I am not sure 0.0275" increase in wall thickness adds that much and Dexter did not have the yield strength information available. Keep in mind the bearing area for the axle in the under slung is on the narrow perch, and not the spring pack width as occurs with an over slung axle.

                              More later

                              Keith
                              2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                New questions

                                Spindles
                                Do I need the EZ-Lube spindels?
                                What about the Never lube option that has sealed bearings front and back?

                                Brakes
                                I believe I want the Never Adjust brakes line I currently have. This is the type that self adjusts over time. Am I thinking correct on this? As I will be getting bigger brakes already with the upgrade, I don't think I need disks. Besides SWMBO will have a fit at that cost. Thoughts?

                                Thanks for your help

                                Off to the Dexter/Rockwell dealer in Aztec. He is supposed to have the largest stock in the area and has good referrals.

                                Keith
                                2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X