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  • Curt Axles

    Looking on the Granddesign website noticed that my model of reflection fifth wheel 303 rls has a mandatory option of CURT AXLES W/ ABS.
    Any folks heard of that make? Curt? ABS? meaning Anti lock breaking system ? Any one heard any details on the braking system?

    comments and replies please
    coops
    Cooper
    2021 303RLS
    2012 Ram 3500 Cummins SRW Short Box

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cooper View Post
    Looking on the Granddesign website noticed that my model of reflection fifth wheel 303 rls has a mandatory option of CURT AXLES W/ ABS.
    Any folks heard of that make? Curt? ABS? meaning Anti lock breaking system ? Any one heard any details on the braking system?

    comments and replies please
    coops
    Lippert bought Curt and so the "rebrand" of the Lippert axle. I am not sure if the ABS system is being used yet or not.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
    630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar, 100/50 SCC
    2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

    Comment


    • #3
      Looks like they are making anti lock braking systems. This would be similar to the older heavy truck anti lock braking systems where wheel speed is fed back to a controller that would adjust wheel speed (reduce actuation voltage in our case) independent of the drivers brake input. It would work well versus standard braking systems.

      https://www.lci1.com/manufacturing/abs/

      Jim
      Last edited by MidwestCamper; 09-12-2022, 07:34 AM.
      2017 Imagine 2600RB
      2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes apparently they work really well when you are towing on a frozen lake, or a road that is covered in plastic sheeting to decrease available friction. OK so I am a cynic. I have never in 28 years of RVing with four diff trailers locked up my trailer brakes. I guess I have never had them be too efficient.: https://www.lci1.com/products/rv-supplier/abs
        Tim and Terri,
        USAF Retired/Veteran.
        F350 DRW Towing a Solitude 390RK-R

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        • #5
          I'm wondering if they are using this system with something better than what we have for our suspension? Its easy to over gain and lock up the front axle alone with the use of an equalizer type suspension. So if they reduce braking on the entire system on near lockup of the front axle alone, this would be a concern. If each individual wheel or axle is separately controlled, this would help folks in low traction situations. Particularly those that may not re-adjust their brake controller for wet or slippery conditions.

          Frozen lake, Plastic Sheeting.... LOL! Like the humor.

          And Welcome to the forum!

          Jim
          Last edited by MidwestCamper; 09-12-2022, 04:38 PM.
          2017 Imagine 2600RB
          2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

          Comment


          • #6
            My biggest geek question would be how the system determines its reference point for speed ? Vehicles use an input from a speed sensor on the trans or another source. The system then determines through the wheel sensors if any wheel is rotating slower and assumes its locking up and reduces brake force on that wheel (or multiples if the signal warrants it)
            With a trailer I dont see how they could find a vehicle speed for reference ? It may just determine any discrepancy between wheel speeds and then adjusts based on that ?

            BTW, having driven many times on a frozen lake (minus my RV) I find that amusing.
            2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

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            • #7
              I would expect that "Trailer ABS" is simply comparing trailer wheel speeds and reducing brake apply voltage to a wheel that is slowing (approaching lockup) more quickly than the other wheels. There is no "information" connection to the truck. Note that ABS is only available with electric drum brakes and not with EoH hydraulically applied disc brakes where reducing an individual line pressure would require more complex plumbing and a more sophisticated controller.

              Balancing ABS and ultimately vehicle braking is much more complex on a truck or car because the brakes have to be able to stop the vehicle under all conditions (even wet ice). Trailers are a little different . . . where there is a requirement for trailers to "have brakes" there is no performance criteria for these brakes. On the other hand, your truck must be able to stop its GCWR (truck and trailer) within a specified distance with trailer brakes disconnected per SAE J2807 procedure.

              Rob
              Cate & Rob
              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
              2015 Reflection 303RLS
              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                Particularly those that may not re-adjust their brake controller for wet or slippery conditions.

                Frozen lake, Plastic Sheeting.... LOL! Like the humor.

                And Welcome to the forum!

                Jim
                Jim
                Excellent point on adjusting gain for the weather conditions.

                Very few folks know that. Also few know how to get the trailer out of a slide when it happens. Step one is get off the brakes and steer. You need the trailer wheels turning to recover. I have driven over Vail pass under chain law conditions (got caught in one of our wait 5 minutes and it will change) with my old trailer and on dicey icy roads to Mississippi and back at Christmas through Colorado, Texas, etc. In hind site I should have parked and waited for the roads to improve, but time did not permit. I have learned the hard way to slow down and reduce the trailer braking. I still have the trailer brakes come on before the truck, but with less force.

                Just my thought However if the ABS system works I would get that option. My guess it is a simple wheel speed sensor the keeps the wheels turning at all times - no lockup possible.

                Keith

                2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel, SteadyFast system, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL), B&W 25K OEM Companion

                Comment


                • #9
                  When towing our previous travel trailers on snow and ice covered roads I would also drop one link down on the weight distributing bars to aid in rear wheel traction. (although I also ran in 4WD on a lot of occasions)
                  2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For our electric brakes, this can be done much cheaper than auto and still be effective. For instance, individual wheel speed is monitored where the surface condition could be approximated by measuring driver applied voltage, individual wheel speed and the rate of change of deceleration of each of four wheels under braking. While braking for instance on a frozen lake or plastic sheets, as the wheel(s) quickly approach zero speed, the controller modulates voltage to maintain wheel speed slightly above zero. There are other factors such as thresholds from any one wheel as compared to the other three. This is a simplified description where it takes ABS calibrators months to have this operating smoothly on a variety of surfaces.

                    Stability control in autos uses a complex hydraulic system to Robs point along with yaw measurement and steering angle (driver input) to use the vehicle braking system to return the vehicle in the direction to where the steering wheel is pointed. So for those in autos or trucks, remember to point the steering wheel where you want the truck to go while sliding. If you freeze on the steering wheel toward a forest, the vehicle will put you there.

                    Jim
                    2017 Imagine 2600RB
                    2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When I was at the Tampa show this past spring, a few other manufacturers were touting Curt suspensions which are not spring axles but independent suspension. I wonder if this is what the GD option is?



                      https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0004440.pdf
                      Vivian
                      2018 Reflection 303rls
                      Ford F-350 diesel long bed 4 x 4 SRW
                      Demco Recon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beachcamper View Post
                        When I was at the Tampa show this past spring, a few other manufacturers were touting Curt suspensions which are not spring axles but independent suspension. I wonder if this is what the GD option is?



                        https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0004440.pdf
                        Vivian,

                        This would be good since front axle rise on heavy braking with an equalizer system could mess with ABS under some conditions.

                        Jim
                        2017 Imagine 2600RB
                        2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My understanding from Grand Design is it is still a leaf spring based suspension, with the ABS axles. It was new stuff when I was at the factory last, and there was not a lot of information about how it worked or controllers yet. Hopefully they will release more information on it soon.
                          Neil Citro
                          2018 Reflection 28bh
                          2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

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                          • #14
                            With the new technology it's possible that they have a ground speed radar. With that radar, they compare the wheel speed to the ground speed to see if the hub is moving slower than than the ground.
                            Joseph
                            Tow
                            Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                            Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                            South of Houston Texas

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                            • #15
                              Jlawles2

                              Ground speed radar on an RV trailer . . . Joseph, you do have a sense of humour .

                              Rob
                              Cate & Rob
                              (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                              2015 Reflection 303RLS
                              2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                              Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                              Comment

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