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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
    Jlawles2

    Ground speed radar on an RV trailer . . . Joseph, you do have a sense of humour .

    Rob
    I don't know Rob - next will be the Flux Capacitor - problem is getting to 88 MPH. Hint - I think I can get there, but can I afford it

    But to be honest based on my reading (and I could be wrong) it is probably just simple wheel speed sensors . IH had the first ABS on on the IH Travelall before anyone else and it was simple wheel speed (magnets) and an electric solenoid that pumped the brakes. I was a curious kid and always snuck back to the guys working on the truck. Back then they were friendly and explained how things worked.

    Dad had it on the truck I learned to drive with ( 69 IH Travelall https://www.google.com/search?client...9+IH+travelall ) was also our tow vehicle (390 gas 3 speed on the tree) . Was just on the rears and a pain to maintain. I think Dad had them deactivate it in the end.

    But it sure would be great to get in, punch in your destination, and just warp there.....baring any Imperial interference,

    YEP - The force has left the building Good Night Folks

    Keith
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel, SteadyFast system, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL), B&W 25K OEM Companion

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    • #17
      Rob knows we used optical speed sensors as well as mechanical ones in development. They are expensive and can easily be fouled up. But the ABS system only needs the latest vehicle speed as reported from the wheel sensors and driver input to operate properly through software and calibration.

      We also used satellite systems from Race Logic.

      https://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php/en/

      Jim
      Last edited by MidwestCamper; 09-15-2022, 07:30 AM.
      2017 Imagine 2600RB
      2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

      Comment


      • #18
        We had a bunch of trucks at work in the early 2000's that used a rudimentary WABCO system with magnetic sensors. They required a lot of attention since the friction material that the pads shed would cover them and caused them to cease signaling. It didnt help that the pads wore down so quick from the abuse they were subjected to.
        2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by familytruckster4 View Post
          We had a bunch of trucks at work in the early 2000's that used a rudimentary WABCO system with magnetic sensors. They required a lot of attention since the friction material that the pads shed would cover them and caused them to cease signaling. It didnt help that the pads wore down so quick from the abuse they were subjected to.
          Remember the old anti-skid air brake systems years ago? The rear wheels would alternate between lock and unlock to maintain control. Primitive but they did work.

          Jim
          2017 Imagine 2600RB
          2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

          Comment


          • #20
            An ABS brake drum has ribs around the outside. (See picture) This is what the sensing system counts to determine wheel speed and then adjusts voltage to the electro magnet that applies that brake to try and keep wheels speeds the same.

            Rob

            Click image for larger version

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            Cate & Rob
            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
            2015 Reflection 303RLS
            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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            • #21
              Who would have thought that they would use the ribs on the outside of the drum? I know those ribs have been there since the early 80's (before that it's a bit fuzzy).

              I would have guessed they put a tone ring on the inside of the drum or on the rim for protection. I'd be afraid if it were using those ribs that it would be exposed to the rim and could get damaged more easily.
              Joseph
              Tow
              Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
              Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
              South of Houston Texas

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                Who would have thought that they would use the ribs on the outside of the drum? I know those ribs have been there since the early 80's (before that it's a bit fuzzy).

                I would have guessed they put a tone ring on the inside of the drum or on the rim for protection. I'd be afraid if it were using those ribs that it would be exposed to the rim and could get damaged more easily.
                You might be correct about a more accurate toothed ring . . . but I couldn’t find a picture. The ribbed drum was listed as “ABS” while the more common smooth drum was not. I don’t think there is room for anything inside the drum . . . but I can’t find any info on this.

                Rob

                Cate & Rob
                (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                2015 Reflection 303RLS
                2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here is a drum for use with ABS. The target ring is on the inside so the sensor can be protected from the elements. The ribs on the outside of the drum are to increase surface area for cooling.

                  https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...le/9-44-3.html

                  Jim
                  2017 Imagine 2600RB
                  2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    MidwestCamper Jim, thanks for the picture. Now when someone pulls one apart, can they confirm it the black ring on the inside of the pilot bore in the hub is steel or plastic. it almost looks like a plastic insulator to impede the sensor reading. However that makes no sense as those sensors are not powerful enough to read from that distance in my experience.
                    Joseph
                    Tow
                    Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                    Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                    South of Houston Texas

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                      Here is a drum for use with ABS. The target ring is on the inside so the sensor can be protected from the elements. The ribs on the outside of the drum are to increase surface area for cooling.

                      https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...le/9-44-3.html

                      Jim
                      Thanks Jim . . . makes more sense .

                      Rob

                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                        MidwestCamper Jim, thanks for the picture. Now when someone pulls one apart, can they confirm it the black ring on the inside of the pilot bore in the hub is steel or plastic. it almost looks like a plastic insulator to impede the sensor reading. However that makes no sense as those sensors are not powerful enough to read from that distance in my experience.
                        Joseph,

                        The target ring would have to be ferrous metal (or magnets used) for hall effect, where most likely the black coating is to protect from corrosion. And the sensor would need to be mounted in close proximity to operate. Another approach is to use a non ferrous target wheel where the sensor is windowing the drum. An optical sensor would be expensive where they would be cost conscious, but anything is possible.
                        Now what would happen to the system when the ring becomes coated in grease?

                        I suspect the controller would have some way of notifying the driver (maybe through an LED) to report diagnostics and the system would be disabled to work as a standard braking system.

                        Jim
                        Last edited by MidwestCamper; 09-16-2022, 07:38 AM.
                        2017 Imagine 2600RB
                        2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Interesting point on how an error would be reported. I know that some of the big 53ft van trailers will have an amber ABS light at the rear, I suspect that light illuminates if there is a system error. If anyone notices an out of place marker light on these trailers I would guess thats your signal.
                          2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by familytruckster4 View Post
                            Interesting point on how an error would be reported. I know that some of the big 53ft van trailers will have an amber ABS light at the rear, I suspect that light illuminates if there is a system error. If anyone notices an out of place marker light on these trailers I would guess thats your signal.
                            I have seen that amber light flashing while transport trucks were braking on a wet surface. I assumed that was to tell the driver in his mirror that the trailer ABS was active since it would be a system independent from the tractor ABS.

                            Rob
                            Cate & Rob
                            (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                            2015 Reflection 303RLS
                            2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                            Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It was a 50/50 guess whether it was an activation or a fault.
                              2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I guess that would depend on the system. Could be a multi function light. Steady on means active, flashing means fault. As a flashing light is more likely to draw attention than a steady.
                                Joseph
                                Tow
                                Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                                Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                                South of Houston Texas

                                Comment

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