Reflection 220RK Frame Cracks

[Scott'n'Wendy]

. . . ask me how I know this .

Rob

How many broken taps?

[Yoda]

If you want to go to bolts instead of screws to fasten the coroplast, you can just drill out the screw holes and thread them directly in the frame. No need to drill larger for rivnuts. A 1/4-20 tap and stainless steel button head bolts and fender washers work well . . . ask me how I know this .

Rob

Is this what your talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Button-Socket...07JLHWCW8?th=1

[Yoda]

You're not going to be to buy any new tools thinking like that!

As for a cross member, consider uni-strut. If you weld it on facing down, you can use the spring nuts that uni-strut is made to accommodate. Then if you make a joint there for a two piece coroplast underbelly, you could use std 1/4" bolts. If you are going with the one piece underbelly, it would not work as well. Just something else to think about.
I like Joseph's rivnut idea. I think I might steal that one. I wonder if the slightly larger holes to accommodate the rivnut would weaken the flange?

Don't worry. After struggling to reinstall the coroplast the last time I am thinking of getting a set of these, along with a few more vice grips to clamp the coroplast in place. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GDFLV3Q...c-f96bd081915c

Keith

[Cate&Rob]

How many broken taps?

There is a technique to "feeling" when a tap is being overstressed. I have broken enough of them to know this feeling LOL! The trailer frame is relatively mild (soft steel). Also, just to hold up coroplast does not need full depth threads, so I go up one size on drill bit so that tapping the (now more shallow cut) threads is easier. Also . . . buy your taps from a tooling supplier . . . not the hardware store. So . . . in answer to your question . . . I probably didn't break any on this project . . . but went through a few.

Rob

[Yoda]

There is a technique to "feeling" when a tap is being overstressed. I have broken enough of them to know this feeling LOL! The trailer frame is relatively mild (soft steel). Also, just to hold up coroplast does not need full depth threads, so I go up one size on drill bit so that tapping the (now more shallow cut) threads is easier. Also . . . buy your taps from a tooling supplier . . . not the hardware store. So . . . in answer to your question . . . I probably didn't break any on this project . . . but went through a few.

Rob

What about using self tapping socket head screws (Not Self Drilling)? I have found them to be useful where I could not get the tap to fit in the space allowed. BTW I have broken the screws too so the pilot drill hole size is important.

[Cate&Rob]

Yoda Keith,

If you are replacing the coroplast anyway . . . dividing it into two or more sections is a good idea (in my opinion). With new material, you can have overlapping seams. You might even want to consider opening doors in the section below the gate valves and tank connections. I did this and these hinged and insulated doors mean that I can easily access this area for maintenance or searching for a leak, etc.

Rob

[Yoda]

Yoda Keith,

If you are replacing the coroplast anyway . . . dividing it into two or more sections is a good idea (in my opinion). With new material, you can have overlapping seams. You might even want to consider opening doors in the section below the gate valves and tank connections. I did this and these hinged and insulated doors mean that I can easily access this area for maintenance or searching for a leak, etc.

Rob

Ill give the multi sections idea some thought. There are several flush to side rail cross members that I can screw into. Now to find you thread on your bomb bay doors.
Keith

[Cate&Rob]

What about using self tapping socket head screws (Not Self Drilling)? I have found them to be useful where I could not get the tap to fit in the space allowed. BTW I have broken the screws too so the pilot drill hole size is important.

I have never had much luck with self tapping screws. The tapping part is made for single use only and thus is not very strong or sharp. The head of the bolt is not significant. I just mentioned the button head stainless (which you found) because I happen to have a lot of these left over from my boating days.

As for access, there are tap handles that work a lot better than the traditional cross bar. These have a slide bar and a rachet mechanism. For long reach, the slide bar can be removed and a socket on an extension can be used on the hex end of the tool.

Rob

[Yoda]

I have never had much luck with self tapping screws. The tapping part is made for single use only and thus is not very strong or sharp. The head of the bolt is not significant. I just mentioned the button head stainless (which you found) because I happen to have a lot of these left over from my boating days.

As for access, there are tap handles that work a lot better than the traditional cross bar. These have a slide bar and a rachet mechanism. For long reach, the slide bar can be removed and a socket on an extension can be used on the hex end of the tool.

Rob

Sweet - I don't have that adapter and non of my sockets fit the shank on the tap. Can you recommend a source?

Thanks Keith

On edit - is this what your talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Inch-Drive-Ad...%3D%3D&sr=8-37

I did not see where a ratchet would fit the one you pictured.

Just wondering

Keith

[TedS]

Tap and drill chart, FYI:

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Yoda Keith,

If you are replacing the coroplast anyway . . . dividing it into two or more sections is a good idea (in my opinion). With new material, you can have overlapping seams. You might even want to consider opening doors in the section below the gate valves and tank connections. I did this and these hinged and insulated doors mean that I can easily access this area for maintenance or searching for a leak, etc.

Rob

Ahh...yes...the 303RLS-B17G version.....

[Yoda]

Update
The frame shop in Farmington NM has failed after two months to get me an estimate or contact Lippert, even though I have made weekly with them (both phone and email). Answer was always someone was out but it was first on the list for the morning.

So Wednesday this week I start calling around Durango again, this time asking several large truck repair places if the knew of a good welder or did Rv work. They all wont touch RV frame work, but two gave me the same name, but the contact information was bad. When I called on back the said to call the welding supply house DOH! should have thought of that. So I did and the supply house manager gave me the correct information and said I was in good hands. When I called him he was up on a building wolring but took my information and said he would come look today.

He got here mid afternoon and went to work inspecting. I had emailed him some of the pictures earlier. He was a bit stiff so I offered him my creeper. His eyes lit up and away he went all around and under. Steve verified the cracks and identified a bunch of welds that were bad - he mentioned the Cra... well shoddy welds and said it was a Monday AM after a Holiday or a Friday afternoon job. He mentioned additional 2x2 sub framing and adding additional cross bracing and additional welds on the existing cross members - tying them t the lower flange rather than just the center of the web. Also some fish plates and web trusses (angle iron for lower flange to upper). He thought the entire frame should be sub framed as where the sub frame ended is where 4 of the cracks were. The cracks looked straight forward to repair as there is good access. Overall he thought the frame looked too light based on the trailer weight - he went and looked at the GVW sticker. He said he would also inspect the front king pin frame while he was doing the work, but from what he could see there is no issue there (no evidence like panel cracks or seem gaps).

He can start early next week. I said great but I needed to get Lipperts approval. I had informed Lippert Wednesday of finding the alternative. They responded back with a sorta OK - something to the effect they were used to working with dealer or shops, but said get an estimate. So hopefully tomorrow I will have the estimate and repair proposal from him and get it to Lippert.

I can only hope

Keith

[Yoda]

Welder is here So far things are going well. Pictures to come.

[Yoda]

Repair photos


Original crack at end of hanger.
Sub-frame installed, and crack welded from both sides. 3/16" fish plate installed above and to the side of the OEM flange stiffener.

Typical web stiffener - about 6 per side added as needed.

Another fish plate - this one above the center hanger over a web crack - again crack was welded both sides.

New cross member added just behind the rear hangers where the worst cracks were on both sides.

[Yoda]

A few more
New jack mounts. Jack was previously only attached to the 2x2 tube. This is the curb side rear just behind the step, You can also see the new 2x2 sub frame tube installed. Everything was painted when he was done, the top of the 2x2 sub frame tube was primed before installation.

Its a bit hard to see but the new sub frame tube extends all the way to the front of the trailer frame and across the back of the front bay along an existing cross member and the back to the front spring hanger street side. So in a nut shell the rig is now fully sub framed.

As it is now repaired stiffer than stock, the only weak point is the stock hanger welds, so I need to keep an eye out as the settle in. I will have x factor braces at each hanger location to minimize and additional hanger flexing.

Once off the jacks I did notice the main door sticking (top left radius area), but this has happened before after jacking for the sumo spring install and tire upgrade. I'm guessing once I move the trailer things will settle out again -otherwise an easy fix.

Now to work on the axle replacement - I have asked GD if they can help any. Welder thought that with the major crack near the rear hanger pn both side the increased web flexing with the hanger and twisting of the spring may have contributed to the thin wall tube bending at the U-bolt.

Anyway I now believe that I have a tank sub frame. I wont be towing for a while, but will report back.

Keith