What do you mean the brakes don't work?

[d2reid]

11 years thousands of miles, this was a first for me. Coming to a stop at in intersate exit the rig was just not slowing down like it usually does. Really glad I have the F450 with the extra big brakes. Ok, something not quite right with the expensive electric over hydaralic disk brake system. Maybe my pads are worn down. Check the truck, show's I have traler break output. Meh, things happen. Next day hook up, test the brakes, shows activated, I can her the pump running. Do a slow trailer control brake check, nada. Hmmmm!. Pull open the front compartment and check the brake fluid level in the pump, empty.... ???

Run to the store buy brake fluid, put it in, activate the pump, pump changes pitch, ok. Just needed to keep the fluid level at appropriate level, dummy, PM pays.

Brakes work leaving the park. Stopped for gas mid afternoon, brakes aren''t working at the exit. Hmmm! Get parked, well empty. Where did the brake fluid go? Crawled around in the gravel and fire ants, can't see a leak. Filled well back up.. Brakes work. Bought more brake fluid, I'll get ahead of this. Nope! End of day, no brakes. Fill well, run pump. Morning, brakes work. Pit stop, no brakes. Still looking for fluid dripping. Add more, run pump.. Finally, after three days of this business I see brake fluid running down the front left tire. More crawling around with the fire ants, obvious leak from left front caliper..

I didn't know that calipers had seals that could fail. Top half no brake fluid, bottom half wet. Repair facilities? Hahahaha... I might get in by Christmas. I got six brakes, so a trip to NAPA and some fittings I take off the offending feeder hose and cap it. Add more fluid, pump, bring the pressure up. I know I should bleed the brake sytem, but dont' have the stuf to do it with. Figure that most of the lines have solid fluid with little or no air in them. Fill, pump, fill pump, fill pump. Well is full and no obvious leaks.

Tomorrow for the big brake test to see if my patch job will work until I get to my destination.

So here are my nagging unanswered questions:

1. Does brake fluid on the surface of tires cause harm?

2. Does excessive brake fluid on rotors cause harm?

3. Should I have worked harder at bleeding the system? My thoughts were that bleeding the lines occurs on initial installation, but hydralulics being what they are there should be little air in the lines...hmmmm!

4. When I replace the offending caliper should I get all new brake pads on all 6 brakes?

5. Will brake fluid contaminate the bearing grease?

6. What type of repair place should I look for to get all new brake pades, replacement caliper?

7. While getting that done should I get the bearings repacked?

8. It's been thousands of miles, all hubs are running under 100f, while I am getting the rest of this stuff done should I get new bearings also?

9. What caused the caliper to fail? Should I anticipate more caliper seal failures?

Mostly these are rhetorical questions just for dicussion. I will run like I am until I get to my winter destination in just 10 days, Then, I will hunt around for a facility that works with Kokiak brake calipers and take the rig in. I expect I will do bearings, pads, and have the other calipers inspected, hopefully by someone who has seen a few of them and know how they fail. Maybe I will just replace all the calipers, that would give me new brake pads all around. Well poop, as long as I am having that done I might as well get new wet bolts installed, aligned, greased.

If you can't have fun with this stuff you should'nt be here.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Wow...that's a lot of questions...glad you said they were rhetorical....
Sorry to hear of your tribulations
Brake fluid on rotors will make the brake ineffective..too slippery...and the brake fluid can't get at the bearing grease...unless your bearing seals are shot?
FYI...brake fluid is REALLY bad for paint.

[Jlawles2]

Let me see how many I can answer.

1. Does brake fluid on the surface of tires cause harm? Not in my experience. Tires and the seals in the caliper use the same material.

2. Does excessive brake fluid on rotors cause harm? Brake fluid does not affect steel. Paint is another issue. You may find any paint on the rotor or caliper or brackets falling off.

3. Should I have worked harder at bleeding the system? My thoughts were that bleeding the lines occurs on initial installation, but hydralulics being what they are there should be little air in the lines...hmmmm! YES. Hydraulic brakes push fluid (air is technically a fluid) into the calipers which "FLEX" a lot of metal parts. When pressure is release a small amount of fluid flows back toward the actuator. Air is an extremely nasty thing. It moves through systems in the least favorable way. More than likely it will all end up in the calipers before it's done. Air being compressible may cause the pads to stay in contact with the rotors which COULD lead to a bit of extra heat.

4. When I replace the offending caliper should I get all new brake pads on all 6 brakes? Why not. Pads typically come in sets of 2. One set for each end of the axle.

5. Will brake fluid contaminate the bearing grease? Again, seals for grease should be made of the same materials the caliper seals are made from. The grease seal is designed to keep grease in and liquids out. It should be fine, wait until the next regularly scheduled maintenance unless you see signs that say otherwise.

6. What type of repair place should I look for to get all new brake pades, replacement caliper? You may find the caliper is actually a GM clone just like the pads. Call around, you may find an independant repair shop that can work you in. Disc brakes are pretty common to work on, just ask the shop if they have experience with disc brakes on trailer or 80's model GM passenger cars (sounds funny but that's pretty much where the technology came from).

7. While getting that done should I get the bearings repacked? See above, if it's close to maintenance time, then ask the shop the questions in answer 6.

8. It's been thousands of miles, all hubs are running under 100f, while I am getting the rest of this stuff done should I get new bearings also? WHY. Without inspection replacing the bearings would be like replacing the engine in the truck just because. I've personally replaced without replacing countless bearings in multiple axle applications from cars to trailers. Again INSPECTION will dictate if you need bearings.

9. What caused the caliper to fail? Should I anticipate more caliper seal failures? Could be a fluke, could be something got under the dust seal, poor quality of the piston in the caliper, etc. How many ideas you want me to give you for failure? If you have another failure before you reach the destination, the I'd start planning on replacing or having them rebuilt (yes rebuild MAY be possible). Calipers are a lip seal and a dust seal. As long as the piston is not phenolic or corroded, along with corrosion on the inside of the caliper, it COULD be serviceable. I was personally no good at getting the seals to work, DAD was an expert with the piston, a board, and an air nozzle. Air in the hydraulic line hole while pressing on the piston, then drop air pressure and the piston wold magically JUMP inside the dust boot and get compressed.

I need a break now, my fingers hurt. Hopefully I was able to answer at least 1 of your concerns.

[Guest]

11 years thousands of miles, this was a first for me. Coming to a stop at in intersate exit the rig was just not slowing down like it usually does. Really glad I have the F450 with the extra big brakes. Ok, something not quite right with the expensive electric over hydaralic disk brake system. Maybe my pads are worn down. Check the truck, show's I have traler break output. Meh, things happen. Next day hook up, test the brakes, shows activated, I can her the pump running. Do a slow trailer control brake check, nada. Hmmmm!. Pull open the front compartment and check the brake fluid level in the pump, empty.... ???

Run to the store buy brake fluid, put it in, activate the pump, pump changes pitch, ok. Just needed to keep the fluid level at appropriate level, dummy, PM pays.

Brakes work leaving the park. Stopped for gas mid afternoon, brakes aren''t working at the exit. Hmmm! Get parked, well empty. Where did the brake fluid go? Crawled around in the gravel and fire ants, can't see a leak. Filled well back up.. Brakes work. Bought more brake fluid, I'll get ahead of this. Nope! End of day, no brakes. Fill well, run pump. Morning, brakes work. Pit stop, no brakes. Still looking for fluid dripping. Add more, run pump.. Finally, after three days of this business I see brake fluid running down the front left tire. More crawling around with the fire ants, obvious leak from left front caliper..

I didn't know that calipers had seals that could fail. Top half no brake fluid, bottom half wet. Repair facilities? Hahahaha... I might get in by Christmas. I got six brakes, so a trip to NAPA and some fittings I take off the offending feeder hose and cap it. Add more fluid, pump, bring the pressure up. I know I should bleed the brake sytem, but dont' have the stuf to do it with. Figure that most of the lines have solid fluid with little or no air in them. Fill, pump, fill pump, fill pump. Well is full and no obvious leaks.

Tomorrow for the big brake test to see if my patch job will work until I get to my destination.

So here are my nagging unanswered questions:

1. Does brake fluid on the surface of tires cause harm?
No

2. Does excessive brake fluid on rotors cause harm?
Will reduce friction and brake effectiveness and will contaminate pads

3. Should I have worked harder at bleeding the system? My thoughts were that bleeding the lines occurs on initial installation, but hydralulics being what they are there should be little air in the lines...hmmmm!
Air should be completely bled in a perfect world

4. When I replace the offending caliper should I get all new brake pads on all 6 brakes?
Yes

5. Will brake fluid contaminate the bearing grease?
No

6. What type of repair place should I look for to get all new brake pads, replacement caliper?
A GDRV dealer preferably or an auto brake shop with product information provided to them

7. While getting that done should I get the bearings repacked?
Yes. Make sure they know what bearing lube you have been using or have them clean out the hubs completely and specify or provide the lube. Provide the Dexter manual on pre-load and adjustment for an auto shop.

8. It's been thousands of miles, all hubs are running under 100f, while I am getting the rest of this stuff done should I get new bearings also?
Replace bearings based on inspection

9. What caused the caliper to fail? Should I anticipate more caliper seal failures?
Dirt or fine stone such as the granite spread on roads out west, heat from brake binding, corrosion

Mostly these are rhetorical questions just for dicussion. I will run like I am until I get to my winter destination in just 10 days, Then, I will hunt around for a facility that works with Kokiak brake calipers and take the rig in. I expect I will do bearings, pads, and have the other calipers inspected, hopefully by someone who has seen a few of them and know how they fail. Maybe I will just replace all the calipers, that would give me new brake pads all around. Well poop, as long as I am having that done I might as well get new wet bolts installed, aligned, greased.
Use Kodiac pads which will be thinner on the tabs to be bent over. Have calipers carefully inspected for what is found in 9.


If you can't have fun with this stuff you should'nt be here.

Mirror Josephs comments but I like to throw in my opinions sometimes.

[d2reid]

Thanks for the responses.

[FloydS]

I have a 2022 Solitude 275RES R with electric over hydraulic brakes and in the beginning this sounded a lot like what happened to me. Lost my brakes on the trailer. Pump working, truck sending good, found master cylinder empty. Refilled, it emptied out, twice. Finally found fluid on the ground at the left front tire. The brake line was broken. Looked at all the calipers from the inside and there is a small plate that the brake line goes thru for support/stabilization. The screw holding it on apparently backed out and the brake line worked until it broke. So screw and plate are gone. Finally found it in the caliper kit at Dexter. Not buying the whole kit, $800+, but they won't sell me the plate and screw, I have to go thru a distributor to purchase the parts I need to fix it. Fortunately we are done running around for the season and I have time to fined a distributor in my area to get these parts form me.

Just a heads up to do a once over on this plate on the back of the caliper on your axels or no brakes could be in your future.

[Cate&Rob]

Hi FloydS,

Welcome to our Grand Design owners forum.
Can you post a picture of the parts you are looking for . . . there is likely a way to find something that will work . . . without spending $800!

Rob

[d2reid]

Work is done, extended warranty claims filed, just waiting for spring to test it all out. Replaced the first caliper, found a second caliper that was damaged when the brake pads wore too quickly and damaged the caliper. Replaced all the brake pads. While packing the bearings found one hub that the seals were leaking on. Upon inspection the folks that did my last bearing job had to grind the spindle and hub to get it to go back together. No I don't know why they did this, but the grind marks were obvious. So the new seal would not seal, new hub. Oh, and by the way, I had another broken spring hanger.

2 months and about $2800 later my brakes are fixed, bearings packed, new brake pads, new spring hanger. Spring to summer run will around 2000 miles. Summer to winter run only 1000.

And just becuase, another Schwintek slide rail replaced for another $2000. It's a good thing my wifes SS kicked in, otherwise I couldn't afford my new motorcycle.