Propane line leak!!!

[Livin' the Dream]

I need to question the design engineers at Grand Design!!! Who in their right mind suspends a gas line directly above the leaf spring assembly on an RV. If you have a 390RK-R I would take a close look at the gas line running to the kitchen. The gas line is inches away from the supports for the leaf springs and if you hit a big enough bump in the road your gas line may get pinched in the process. Moving said gas line a few inches over would have alleviated the potential, dangerous situation of a gas leak, but no it's directly above the hanger assembly. Now replacing said gas line is another engineering feat that has me scratching my head. On either end of the 18' line are two aluminum manifolds. Both have female threads milled directly into the aluminum block, the line that needs to be replaced has a male thread on each end. No swivel!!!!! No way to remove or replace said line without going back to the very end of the run and removing all the gas lines to the manifold, then unscrewing the manifold from the 18' gas line, remove the gas line, from the front manifold, then reassemble the entire gas system back to the fridge and stove.

This is our third life safety issue with our GD 390RK-R and as they say in the baseball world, three strikes and you're out. I'm not going to my wife's and my life in danger anymore from a poorly designed RV. Don't get me wrong, we loved the floor design of the RV, but I've run out of fingers counting the number of issues we've had over the past few years. And when our lives are put in danger due too; in my humble opinion, poor engineering we're done.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Did you end up getting a propane leak? Not sure from your post if you are moving it as preventative maintenance or you had a damaged line.

[Cate&Rob]

Gary & Carla:

Perhaps you could post a picture of your concern? It is fairly common to run propane lines down the frame rails past the suspension. Perhaps you could illustrate how you would propose to move the propane line away from the frame rail. If your intent is to "question the design engineers at Grand Design" this owners forum is not the means to do that. Grand Design Customer Service contact info is on our home page.

If your concern is a propane leak while travelling, Grand Design advises to turn off the propane tanks when travelling. We each make our own assessment of whether we want to do that.

Rob

[Livin' the Dream]

Rob,

Yes, I did indeed have a propane leak!!!! Which was due to poor design. If I can't voice my concern here for everyone to see and check their rigs for the same issue, then what good is a forum to discuss issues we have with our RV's, and a flawed design should not be something we can't discuss. It's a life safety issue that owners should know about, just like the two brake lines that broke on our rig because there wasn't enough line to allow for axel movement.

I would hope an engineer would have thick enough skin and self-respect to take some criticism about the poor placement of the gas line and take some responsibility for such placement. If the truth about the faulty design bothers you so much ban me from the forum, slap my wrist or do whatever you want. It wasn't your life that was in danger of being blown away!!!!!!! It was mine, my wife's, and those around me of whom I would have been held responsible for. BTW, jumping to conclusions that I traveled down the road with the gas turned on is just that you jumping to conclusions.

I spent 18 yrs. as a nurse most of which was in the ER at a Level 1 trauma center. I also, was a Hazardous Materials Disposal Specialist, and hauled HAZ waste over the road, I've seen it all. So, I'm a bit of a safety geek. I turned on the gas after we set up camp. My wife said she smelled gas, and I looked over at my neighbor and saw no less than eight 20 and 30 lb. propane tanks in the back of his truck. Not tied down but laying every which way. I contributed the smell to those tanks., but I check all the connections with soapy water anyway and didn't find a leak. At that time, I didn't check the line for wear and tear cuz our RV was a year old. Not a good thing on my part. See admitting a mistake is easy to do. It wasn't until I filled the tanks the next day and they emptied out that night did I physically run the line with my hand. So, two mistakes on my part.

If they would have moved the line even 2 inches towards the center of the frame and anchored it to a cross beam that would have alleviated the problem. Placing it directly over the hanger was a big mistake on their part and I would suggest that everyone check their gas line placement and move it if it's in a position to get pinched. Pretty easy fix. Cuz you'd have to hit a bump so hard your axel would have to crush the line against the frame itself. Not very likely going to happen.

So, I posted this to bring it to the attention of other owners to check their RV's and to hopefully let GD know that it needs to be addressed. If I hurt somebodies feeling in the process, so be it. I'd rather do that than read about somebody losing their life because I didn't day something.

[Cate&Rob]

Gary,

There is certainly a lot more information to help us understand the situation, in your second post. This forum is full of discussions where owners find things that are less than ideal as built by the factory and propose solutions or modifications for other owners, to remedy these situations. This is what this owners-helping-owners forum is all about. You would not be censored in any way for this advice.

The gist of my earlier message was asking for more information (which you have provided) on what happened and how you made the situation better or safer.

I stand by my earlier comment that, if your intent is to bring this situation to the attention of Grand Design, this owners forum is not the means to do that. You would have to contact them directly.

To the specifics shown in your picture, moving the propane line inboard, away from the potential travel of suspension components makes sense to me. An idea that comes from Super Springs as part of their Sumo Spring installation kit is to use brackets fastened to the frame rail but positioning the propane line inboard of the rail (if required to clear the Sumo Spring locations.) Brackets such as this would be relatively easy to fabricate (perhaps make them even a little longer than shown in the attached) and would offer the advantage of not having to locate cross frames above the coroplast for attachment points.

Rob

[ncitro]

Livin' the Dream I think the point Rob was trying to make was to let you know this is simply a group of owners. Grand Design does not monitor the forum,so if your hope is to notify them off the issue your best bet is to contact them or your dealer directly.

As to your suggestion for owners to check their line routing, that's great and the reason we are all here. Glad you found the issue and resolved it.

[TedS]

There are beam clamps available so no drilling required to attach to the chassis beam.

[TucsonJim]

Livin' the Dream

Gary - I hate to point it out to you, but you have another "significant" problem to deal with. The weld on your CRE3000 equalizer has failed and may get worse. I'll attach photos of your failed weld vs. a good weld. This failed weld may be the cause of the suspension contacting the gas line. The CRE3000 is rated for 8,000 pounds. By any chance do you know the weight at this wheel position is?

Jim





Jim

[Guest]

On my Imagine, the gas line also runs along the frame member. They mount the lines in manufacturing after the coroplast is installed since mine is on top and it looks the same as the OPs. Guessing they choose the outside of the frame for mounting so they can see where the self tapping screws are penetrating to on the top side of the frame flange.

There could be a short channel installed near the suspension for the gas line to run through. A similar method used on some fifth wheels for the gas line cross over in the passthrough.

The exposed line is good to have for inspection IMO but it would be nice to protect if from suspension and tire failures.

Jim

[OffToHavasu]

This is probably why the lines are exposed. NFPA 1192 (fire code for RVs), "tubing or hose shall not be run inside walls, floors, partitions, or ceilings".

There is an exception, but I'm not sure having to remove chloroplast qualifies as having visual inspection of the entire length.

[Cate&Rob]

OffToHavasu
Hi Curtis,

Interesting that the cross RV hose from the curb side tank to the street side selector valve runs through a square tube part of the frame . . .

Rob

[Jlawles2]

Rob, I guess that's the way around rule 5.3.8.4 as the tube it runs through acts as protection. Also note it's open on both ends to the propane tank areas, so less chance of buildup of gases for potential issues.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Pretty sure a propane leak there would never be an issue, BUT, should be off to the side. The root cause seems to be a Mor-Ryde suspension failure.

[KCalis]

... Who in their right mind suspends a gas line directly above the leaf spring assembly on an RV. If you have a 390RK-R I would take a close look at the gas line running to the kitchen. The gas line is inches away from the supports for the leaf springs and if you hit a big enough bump in the road your gas line may get pinched in the process. Moving said gas line a few inches over would have alleviated the potential, dangerous situation of a gas leak, but no it's directly above the hanger assembly. Now replacing said gas line is another engineering feat that has me scratching my head. On either end of the 18' line are two aluminum manifolds. Both have female threads milled directly into the aluminum block, the line that needs to be replaced has a male thread on each end. No swivel!!!!! No way to remove or replace said line without going back to the very end of the run and removing all the gas lines to the manifold, then unscrewing the manifold from the 18' gas line, remove the gas line, from the front manifold, then reassemble the entire gas system back to the fridge and stove. ...

Resurrecting an old thread but feel that the safety aspect warrants review. I agree with everything I quoted from Gary's original post above.

We smelled propane upon arriving at the site last week. I soaped all of the fittings from the tanks to the gas valves and confirmed correct appliance operation. (In case you caught it, I did my time in the gas business chasing gas leaks.) Who would have thought the leak would be in the middle of the piping! And not just one, but two holes. The outboard u-bolt on the rear axle had pinched the 3/4" propane hose against the frame causing both pinch points to leak. Both blew bubbles when soaped.

I see no suspension problems that would cause the extreme movement of the axle. What I do know is that we came around the north side of Memphis and drove on some of the worst roads we've encountered in our travels. Even so, the routing of the propane line above the u-bolt is bad, bad design engineering. If there's been two occurrences, there have been more. The leak may be outside of the trailer, but ignition would still burn the house down! I'll be in Middlebury next week and you can bet I'll bring it to Support's attention!

[howson]

KCalis -- welcome to the forum and for an informative first post. I checked your profile and see the trailer's VIN is not documented. Please update your VIN or send it to me. You can do so via private message (on this forum) or email all the moderators at once at gdrvmoderators@gmail.com

If you have a moment, also update your profile's signature line. (See the Welcome Letter link for more information.)

Look forward to your future contributions to the forum.

Howard