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  • #31
    Originally posted by howson View Post
    AMSolar's and BB's guides differ on one point. Battle Born says to have the Maximum Absorption Time set for 30m per 100aH battery. AMSolar says 30m, period.

    Hi Howard,

    Just about to finish up the rewiring and installation of 4 new Lion Safari UT Lithium 105 AH batteries. I'll be setting parameters in my Victron solar charge controller today. In preparation, I was looking for some of your documentation -- and I saw the above disturbing statement lurking.

    I see you chose 30m, period. Could you share the reason why?

    My understanding has been that it's quite challenging to get the Lithium's to reach 100% SOC, so a long absorption time is desired. Having gone to great lengths to get each battery charging/discharging at equal rates, my feeling is that Battle Born's advice makes a lot more sense.

    Anxiously awaiting your comments.

    -Steve

    2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
    Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
    2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
    18k B&W Companion, non-slider
    640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
    Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
    Somerset, WI

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by steve&renee View Post
      Hi Howard,

      Just about to finish up the rewiring and installation of 4 new Lion Safari UT Lithium 105 AH batteries. I'll be setting parameters in my Victron solar charge controller today. In preparation, I was looking for some of your documentation -- and I saw the above disturbing statement lurking.

      I see you chose 30m, period. Could you share the reason why?

      My understanding has been that it's quite challenging to get the Lithium's to reach 100% SOC, so a long absorption time is desired. Having gone to great lengths to get each battery charging/discharging at equal rates, my feeling is that Battle Born's advice makes a lot more sense.

      Anxiously awaiting your comments.

      -Steve
      Hey Steve,
      I don't completely understand the "why" so what I'll share below is my exchange with Garret Towne, the main guy at AMSolar. (They've given me permission in the past to publicly post what they send me in emails.)

      From me to Garret, 10 Feb 20:
      Topic: SmartSolar 150/100 initial setup settings.
      Question: Battle Born's setup guide states to set the Maximum Absorption Time to 30 minutes per 100aH battery. Given I have four batteries that's 2 hours.
      https://battlebornbatteries.com/prog...ge-controller/
      AMSolar's guide (and what I was told on the phone) was to set it to 30 minutes--period. https://amsolar.com/rv-solar/support guides
      Can you please confirm that 30 minutes, as shown in my settings below, is correct for my 4 batteries?


      Garret's response, same day (only 4 hours later!):
      We stand by 30 minutes period. The number of batteries in a battery’s vicinity is irrelevant to the optimal charge for that particular battery.

      For my Battle Born batteries, having used both settings, there's been effectively no difference in performance or charging that I can detect. But that statement can't be backed up with data--it is purely anecdotal.

      Bottom line: I wouldn't get too worked up over this issue.

      Out of curiosity, what is the absorption setting recommended by Lion?

      Howard


      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by howson View Post

        Out of curiosity, what is the absorption setting recommended by Lion?

        Howard
        The absorption period is not specified in their manual -- kind of a slim-pickens document in my opinion.

        I've submitted a question to their technical support people through Lion's official channel. Will post if they provide a response. . .

        -Steve

        2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
        Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
        2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
        18k B&W Companion, non-slider
        640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
        Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
        Somerset, WI

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by howson View Post

          Out of curiosity, what is the absorption setting recommended by Lion?

          Howard
          Lion product support got back to me: "Our BMS is set up a little different than theirs [BB]. We don't have a time requirement. We recommend setting the float and absorption to 13.9 volts. This will allow for battery capacity and life to be not be hindered."

          So I'm gonna follow the Lion recommendation. BTW, I told the guy that information would be great material for the manual. He said, "Wow, that's a great thing to add. Much appreciated." Duh.
          2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes
          Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles, V-Brackets in spring hangers
          2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
          18k B&W Companion, non-slider
          640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
          Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
          Somerset, WI

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by steve&renee View Post

            Lion product support got back to me: "Our BMS is set up a little different than theirs [BB]. We don't have a time requirement. We recommend setting the float and absorption to 13.9 volts. This will allow for battery capacity and life to be not be hindered."

            So I'm gonna follow the Lion recommendation. BTW, I told the guy that information would be great material for the manual. He said, "Wow, that's a great thing to add. Much appreciated." Duh.
            Yes, when I installed my Lion Energy batteries last year I asked them about settings and got this reply:

            The three stages or steps in lead acid battery charging are bulk, absorption, and float. The Safari UT has an internal Battery Management System (BMS) that acts as a safety net to shut down the battery if it is out of parameters, this prevents the battery from overcharging or discharging as well as operating outside of the temperature range where a lead acid battery does not have that management system. We recommend setting all voltages to 14.6 or at least close to where it does not exceed 14.6V. As long as you are pushing 14.6V to the battery, then the Battery Management System will be able to handle the rest. End amps or tail amps need to be set as low as possible. Exact voltages may vary dependent on the charge controller and inverter you are using.
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            Neil Citro
            2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
            2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
              howson
              Looking great Howard !
              Are you sure that 10 pocket screws are enough to fasten the piece of plywood to the 1x3s ? .
              I know . . . you just like using that Kreg pocket hole tool !

              Rob
              Note to self... don't get rid of my Kreg pocket hole tool until after I'm done with RV mods!
              My trailer: Grand Design Momentum 397TH with many small modifications and a fairly large (1700W panels, 10KW batteries) DIY solar install.

              My truck: 2020 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn 4x4 DRW, 6.7L Cummins HO Turbo Diesel, Aisin 6-speed, 4.10 axle, Patriot Blue Pearlcoat, Longhorn L1, Towing Tech, Max tow, Towing prep, 30K 5th wheel, Cold Weather pkg, Safety group, Body color bumpers, Tow hooks, Auto level, 50 gal fuel, Bed step, Side steps, Sunroof, Aux switches, Air Horn, TruXedo Sentry bed cover

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              • #37
                howson, I'm studying your solar install as I'm going to do something very similar on my 2021 Reflection 315RLTS. One question I have for you is why you went with 10 gauge wire for connecting the solar panels to the combiner box (C box, or junction box) on the roof? I plan on doing the same 100 watt panels as you did, with 2 in series per run. With two 100 watt panels in series, based on you specs, it seems like the most current that will every be put out from each pair of solar panels is 6 amps. If this is correct, even 12 gauge wire will be overkill, and 14 gauge wire should work just fine. I'm thinking I must be missing something. I assume that 14 gauge wire is fine for carrying 15 amps, so it should be fine carrying 6 amps from the pair of solar panels. Is my thought process flawed?
                Home Base: Fairfax, Virginia
                2021 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS Travel Trailer
                2002 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel 4X4 SRW

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Jimmer View Post
                  howson, I'm studying your solar install as I'm going to do something very similar on my 2021 Reflection 315RLTS. One question I have for you is why you went with 10 gauge wire for connecting the solar panels to the combiner box (C box, or junction box) on the roof? I plan on doing the same 100 watt panels as you did, with 2 in series per run. With two 100 watt panels in series, based on you specs, it seems like the most current that will every be put out from each pair of solar panels is 6 amps. If this is correct, even 12 gauge wire will be overkill, and 14 gauge wire should work just fine. I'm thinking I must be missing something. I assume that 14 gauge wire is fine for carrying 15 amps, so it should be fine carrying 6 amps from the pair of solar panels. Is my thought process flawed?
                  First reason was the wire from AMSolar has the insulation meant to live on a roof (for new readers of this thread see post #1).

                  Second reason was to mitigate loss in my solar array's wiring. Losses can quickly add up. The distance from the furthest pair of panels is easily 30' from the combiner box, so according to the wire chart below (and using the critical loss column) 10 ga is not an extreme choice.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	wiring.JPG Views:	0 Size:	147.3 KB ID:	69830

                  If you'd like to know more, Will Prowse has an excellent video on the topic of why it's important to minimize loss in a solar system.



                  Howard

                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Thanks for the quick response. I completely agree with point #1, that AM Solar has a great 10 gauge wire designed to be exposed to the elements. I watched the Will Prowse video. Thanks for that. As to point #2, in theory 12 gauge wire should be plenty for the 6 amps put out by the solar panels. This is confirmed with the calculator on the Explorist.Life web site. https://www.explorist.life/wire-sizing-calculator/
                    However, if I can't find a good exterior rate wire in 12 gauge, I'll likely us the same wire you used.

                    I just spoke to AM Solar about the combiner or C box that you used, and they don't have the needed extra bus bars, so I'll have to look elsewhere for the combiner box.

                    Howson, your quick answers are greatly appreciated. I asked AM Solar by phone today, and they said they couldn't answer over the phone. They indicated that I should submit a form with my questions, and a response to my inquiry could take 14 days. Wow!!
                    Last edited by Jimmer; 11-08-2021, 01:18 PM.
                    Home Base: Fairfax, Virginia
                    2021 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS Travel Trailer
                    2002 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel 4X4 SRW

                    Comment

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