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  • Switching between Generator and Solar power

    We have a 2023 Momentum 25G with two 300W factory installed solar panels.

    Trailer had been hooked up to shore power since we purchased it in April.

    Yesterday, we removed shore power, put both slide outs out, put happy Jack bed in lock position, and turned on refrigerator (no issues). The WFCO showed DC status 12.6V.

    24 hours later we came back, WFCO showed 12.0V. We turned on overhead lights and radio (both worked). We then started the generator (no issues) for about 40 minutes to test it out. Upon shutting off generator, there was no power.

    We download the “Solar App” as stated in owners manual. It indicated low battery and 11.6V.

    We hooked back up to shore power and overhead lights worked and refrigerator turned on.

    Is there something we missed when turning off the generator? Is there something you must do to switch back to battery/solar power when dry camping?
    The Hawthrone Family
    2023 Momentum 25G
    2023 GMC Sierra 2500

  • #2
    hlhawthrone -- there's nothing special you need to do with regards to 12vDC. There's no switching with 12vDC when going from shore to generator power. The automatic transfer switch associated with the generator is for switching the source of 120vAC. Once the camper has AC power, the converter uses that power to charge the battery. Doesn't matter if the AC comes from the shore pedestal or generator--the transfer switch makes sure the AC is routed appropriately to the Power Distribution Panel (the one with the breakers).

    For the solar power, there's also nothing needed when switching from generator to shore. In fact, there's no connection between those systems.

    What you might want to check is if the solar panels are actually transferring power to the solar controller. A friend's Momentum had wires connected to a non-functioning solar port on the roof. The actual wires coming from the panels were found tucked (uncapped!) near the controller.

    So why is the battery so low? That's a mystery at the moment. When the camper is hooked up to shore power can you measure the battery voltage with a multimeter? (It's a bummer the Momentum trailer line doesn't have a Furrion Battery Monitor--would make this much easier.)

    In all cases, a multimeter will be your best friend while troubleshooting. If you don't have one, now is an excellent time to get one.

    Howard
    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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    • #3
      hlhawthrone When going back and forth from shore power to solar I have had a couple instances where the GFI on my inverter has tripped and I lost 120v power but still had all 12v circuits, all it took was resetting the GFI on the inverter. Did you loose all power?

      Also the “Solar App” that is recommended if you have Jaboni MPPT is outdated. They now recommend using the “Future Link” app seen in the picture below.
      Scott & Mikaela
      2022 375 RES
      2020 F-350 DRW

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      • #4
        hlhawthrone besides what Howard wrote, I'm also curious if the generator is charging your battery. I'm also surprised you were able to start your generator with low voltage.

        I'm with Howard. Time to trouble shoot. Use multimeter and make sure you are getting power from solar panels at the solar charge controller. I would also make sure your solar charge controller is connected to your batteries.
        Allen

        2021 Momentum 21G

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        • #5
          howson Sandridge4 acoleman43

          Tested both batteries: 12.01V and 12.04V

          Upon inspecting connections we found our power cord had a green and red light. Note: we do not know if it has been like this since we brought it home in April or if it recently happened when we removed power cord to test generator.

          We changed our charging source/outlet for shore power. Only green light appears on power cord. Battery went from 12.2V to 12.5V in about 2 hours and then dropped to 12.2V with nothing being used. Fridge is off.

          Next morning came back to 12.3V.

          We have determined when we unplug from shore power NOTHING works.

          We also tested the generator again today. It turned on successfully and everything worked.

          To reiterate, everything (including battery power) was working until we turned OFF our generator the first time.

          I have included some photos in hopes that something stands out to someone. I have more photos but 5 is the limit per post…
          The Hawthrone Family
          2023 Momentum 25G
          2023 GMC Sierra 2500

          Comment


          • #6
            hlhawthrone, it seems your batteries are not connected to your main distribution panel....or something. Howard is much smarter than I, but I would start tracing (manually and with a multimeter) the wires from your battery to your distribution panel.
            Allen

            2021 Momentum 21G

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            • #7
              Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post
              Howard is much smarter than I...
              WAY not true!

              hlhawthrone -- agree that finding why battery power is not getting passed to the camper is priority #1. If battery power won't turn on the interior lights (shore power disconnected) that means the converter is not charging the battery.

              In the diagram below this is how my 315RLTS came from the factory. Yours may be wired slightly differently but the concept is still the same.

              When the camper is plugged into shore power, 120vAC is provided to the converter. The converter makes 12vDC so "everything works".

              Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	569.7 KB ID:	113091

              With the OEM Shutoff ("battery disconnect") ON (key can not be removed) power can get from the battery to the camper.

              NOTE: The inverter on/off key in the Momentum IS NOT the same switch as the battery disconnect though they look exactly the same.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	572.2 KB ID:	113092

              Note how if the OEM shutoff is OFF (key can be removed or there's a wiring issue) the converter cannot charge the battery.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	566.2 KB ID:	113093

              Bottom line: the issue is somewhere in the circuit circled below.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	567.9 KB ID:	113094


              A multimeter will reveal the issue--just gotta dig in and find it. If electrical work is not something that's familiar, consider getting a mobile tech to find the problem or find a friend that knows their way around a multimeter to help. Should be easy for an experienced person to troubleshoot.

              Howard
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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              • #8
                howson after reading another post (https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...down-generator) we also checked the 20A fuse to the converter. It was bad. We switched the fuse and the DC power came back on. However, the battery is not getting any input from the solar.

                We plugged back into shore power and the battery got to 13.1V. Once taken off of shore power it dropped again to 12.1V (even with the converter turned off) within an hour or so.

                We have tried to call the dealership and mobile mechanic to come look at it and we are stuck at this point so I am hoping you have more insight to help us. I appreciate your help!
                The Hawthrone Family
                2023 Momentum 25G
                2023 GMC Sierra 2500

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hlhawthrone View Post
                  howson after reading another post (https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...down-generator) we also checked the 20A fuse to the converter. It was bad. We switched the fuse and the DC power came back on. However, the battery is not getting any input from the solar.

                  We plugged back into shore power and the battery got to 13.1V. Once taken off of shore power it dropped again to 12.1V (even with the converter turned off) within an hour or so.

                  We have tried to call the dealership and mobile mechanic to come look at it and we are stuck at this point so I am hoping you have more insight to help us. I appreciate your help!
                  The device in the last picture is an inverter. An inverter uses 12vDC ("battery power") to generate 120vAC ("shore power"). All the inverter would do is drain battery power (if utilized). An inverter has nothing to do with charging a battery.

                  A converter does the opposite. It uses 120vAC to generate 12vDC. The converter is sometimes inside the Power Distribution Panel (PDP) or is a separate component near the PDP. Since the lights work when plugged into shore power, the assumption is there's nothing wrong with the converter in your rig.

                  I'm still a bit confused on the purpose for the 20A fuse. Look at the label on the inverter. The DC Input values are 12.5vDC nominal at 220A continuous. No way that 20A fuse is for the inverter. Definitely not for the converter, either. That why my guess is the 20A fuse protects the wiring associated with the Mini-EMS (Electrical Management System) for your Momentum as outlined in the owner's manual. I'm sorry but I don't know what happens with power if that Mini-EMS blows a fuse.

                  The solar is an entirely separate problem. Please take a picture of the controller and post it here. Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it? (Sorry if I asked this already...too many threads so I lose track.)

                  Howard

                  Edit: Church starts in 10 minutes, so I'll be offline for about 1.5 hours. I'll check back later for a response.
                  Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                  2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                  • #10
                    From everything I've seen that you've provided the conclusion from me would be make sure your converter is off when your inverter is on. If you have something running off the inverter when the other systems are on also, you won't ever charge your battery. I have a 2019 28G (first of it's kind) and just completed an install of two LiFePO4 batteries and 400W solar panels. I do have an inverter, but I keep it in a duffle bag until I need to use it and then have a connection for it on my exterior battery box where I plug the main 30amp cord of the trailer into but before doing that I switch the converter off in the main panel. I also have a 30-amp breaker between the panels and the charge controller so I can physically disconnect the panels when I want to use the generator. I don't know if any of this helps but I would start with a multimeter and check each system separately ie, solar, generator, shore and make sure that converter is off when the inverter is on.
                    2019 28G Momentum TT

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timlsalem View Post
                      From everything I've seen that you've provided the conclusion from me would be make sure your converter is off when your inverter is on.
                      Absolutely--but no need to "turn off" the converter. By definition there's no need to run the inverter if connected to shore power. The only way the converter will run (in a Momentum TT as wired from the factory) is if shore power or the generator is running. If either of those two sources of 120vAC power are available there's no reason to run the inverter.

                      Originally posted by timlsalem View Post
                      If you have something running off the inverter when the other systems are on also, you won't ever charge your battery.
                      Again, the assumption is if running the inverter to generate 120VAC then neither shore or generator power is available. (The inverter is the "last resort" for AC power.) Unlike shore power or the generator, the inverter will not pass 120vAC to the converter, thus you're absolutely correct.

                      Originally posted by timlsalem View Post
                      I also have a 30-amp breaker between the panels and the charge controller so I can physically disconnect the panels when I want to use the generator.
                      Why? The solar controller and converter will work in tandem with no problem to charge the battery when the generator is running. Just like they work together with no problem when on shore power.
                      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The 28G had only two ways to get power to the battery, shore and generator. Now there is four ways. Shore, generator, solar, DC to DC charger which hooks into my TV. Neither of the last two are wired from the factory. The breaker is there so I can disconnect the panels when towing and also when connected to shore. There is no need for either of them as the TV maintains the batteries and shore does the same. It's peace of mind for me as I am the only one that installed everything. The inverter is an add on also which connects directly to the batteries and is only used when dry camping and when I don't want the noise of the generator. Now, if I had my invertor connected in-line somewhere before the batteries then yes, it all would work the way you stated. Since I connect right to the batteries and then plug the trailer into the invertor the brains of the system, WFCO, thinks I just plugged into shore power and the convertor will start to charge and maintain the batteries as if I was plugged into shore power. So, you have a device that is drawing power faster then a device that can replace it. It all makes sense to me and that's all that matters, and it works the way it's supposed to.
                        2019 28G Momentum TT

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                        • #13
                          howson I had to do a little bit of research on the terms you were using since this Momentum has many more features and issues than our previous travel trailers. After watching a YouTube video "RV 30 AMP Power Distribution explained" (included here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8MDSYqY5yA) we found the Power Distribution Panel (PDP) and converter in the bedroom (picture included). Note: the converter seems to be making a blowing fan noise that does not stop.

                          I have also included a picture of the "controller" as you asked (I'm assuming you mean the Solar Charge Controller). Using the multimeter (hopefully correctly), the right side measured 12.18 and the left side just had a "1".

                          Unfortunately, while working in the trailer today, we also found another issue which may/may not be related. There is water (from recent rain) seeping into the bedroom floor at the dresser. The outside kitchen had water and damage inside too and the GFCI had water on and inside. Some pictures documented here.

                          Luckily, we were able to find a mobile tech who will be out tomorrow afternoon.

                          At this point I am feeling like we purchased a lemon. We traded in a beloved trailer that was working perfectly fine to a what we thought was an upgrade to a higher end trailer... and have had nothing but issues since we picked it up last month (and we are supposed to be on a trip starting Tuesday...).
                          The Hawthrone Family
                          2023 Momentum 25G
                          2023 GMC Sierra 2500

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                          • #14
                            hlhawthrone

                            The water leak is priority #1 (IMHO).

                            The left side input on the controller is typically from the solar panels. The voltage should be much higher than what was read on the multimeter. The issue could be the wrong wires are inserted into the controller (did you look for loose wires tucked somewhere around the controller?). Careful if the sun is up--if you find a loose set of wires it may be "live".

                            If no wires are found there's a wiring issue between the panel and the solar controller. Most likely a faulty connection between the panel and gland on the roof, or from the gland to the solar controller. Unfortunately to check under the gland it will have to be removed from the roof. Not a terrible job, but not the first place to look.

                            A typical gland is below (easy to trace the wire from the panel to this small component on the roof). The wires from the controller to the gland connect underneath (the second picture without any wires installed).

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Howard
                            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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                            • #15
                              Note to self -- see https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...it-fault-codes for a continuation of the fault associated with the 20A fuse.
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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