Lithium safe converter

[Running from Gnats]

I'm looking at what might be a charger for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries which would work in my Imagine 2600RB. My understanding is Lithium Iron Phosphate requires a compatible charger in order not to damage or shorten the battery life. What would be perfect would be a plug and play unit. I'm planning on upgrading the batteries to Renogy 100 amp (new model).

[JeffC]

Here is the one most of us are using from Progressive

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[TucsonJim]

I'm looking at what might be a charger for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries which would work in my Imagine 2600RB. My understanding is Lithium Iron Phosphate requires a compatible charger in order not to damage or shorten the battery life. What would be perfect would be a plug and play unit. I'm planning on upgrading the batteries to Renogy 100 amp (new model).

Most converters will work well with a LiFePO4 battery and will not damage them. The downfall is that they charge at a lower voltage which takes longer to charge up your battery bank. If you do go with a LifePO4 dedicated converter/charger, make sure you get one with the correct amperage. If you get one with too much current, your wiring may not be large enough for the current flow. If you get one too small, it may not have enough power for peak current demands.

If you're going with the Progressive Industries version, the PD9160AL or PD9160ALV replaces the stock 55 amp WFCO converter installed in many GDRV units. But I have seen some recent models with 45 amp converters, so make sure you check first. And note: The "L" in the suffix of the PD9160AL or ALV stands for Lithium. There standard converter is the PD9160AV. I ordered the "L" version on Amazon, and was shipped the non-"L" model.

Jim

[Guest]

The standard WFCO charger can time out of bulk mode in a couple hours. And the Lithium battery may not reach 100% SOC. A Lithium battery that does not reach 100% SOC will not balance which needs to happen at least sometimes. To get the best life cycle on Lithium is to charge to 80% SOC and Discharge to 20% SOC, but to fully charge ever so often will aid in balancing all the cells IMO. This also aids in resetting battery monitors as well. Too bad no charger for RVs will do the 80-20 charge cycle.

Here is a great article from the folks down under at Enerdrive. These guys have some interesting videos and articles but I do not see that we can purchase their products here.

https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/...-acid-charger/

[michael bellish]

I am installing Lion Lithium batteries and plan to use the existing converter for awhile. I understand Lithium batteries provide near maximum voltage until nearly discharged. If this is true, when charging with the existing converter, will the converter see a mostly discharged (still providing nearly maximum voltage) lithium battery as full and only charge at the trickle (maintenance) level?

[Guest]

Michael,

You will want to look at what conventional charger you have which has traditionally been WFCO in GDRV. If this is the case and your charger does NOT have an equalization mode, you will not harm the Lithium battery by an overvoltage condition. But you will also not necessarily balance the battery as well as a dedicated charger with a lithium profile will. It would be best for you to inquire with WFCO as well as Lions Energy for their approval.

Another consideration on Lithium charging is when towing with the TV which will continue to feed power to the RV battery at various TV voltages which could at times be in excess of 14.6V. Some including myself are installing a DC DC charger to allow the TV alternator to charge with a Lithium charge profile such as with the Renogy DC DC Charger.

Jim

[Second Chance]

WFCO now has the WF-9850L2 converter/charger for lithium batteries, too. I checked with Battle Born and they approved of the specs.

Rob

EDIT: All converter/chargers should come with a warning about the risk of pain and injury to the installer's back during installation in the basement of a fifth wheel.

[Dentil]

Michael,


Another consideration on Lithium charging is when towing with the TV which will continue to feed power to the RV battery at various TV voltages which could at times be in excess of 14.6V. Some including myself are installing a DC DC charger to allow the TV alternator to charge with a Lithium charge profile such as with the Renogy DC DC Charger.

Jim

I too decided to purchase 2 Lion Energy UT 1300 lithium batteries from Costco at the price of $699 each, not because my lead acid batteries are failing to provide what I need, but how convenient would it be to have all those usable amp hours at this cost. I knew about the need to replace the controller but didn't know about this DC DC charger. This presumed savings is changing and my batteries haven't even arrived yet. I have been to quite a few Battleborn presentations at Rallies and I've seen many sales transactions and don't remember hearing of the need for a DC DC charger. If this is true, (and I believe it is more for safety reasons) maybe I should cancel my order and not try to fix what isn't broken.
Advise Appreciated
Thanks,
Dennis

PS, I'm not sure if my signature shows as this is one of my first posts on this forum, but I happily own a 19 337 Reflection with 2 Interstate 27 series 12v batteries, 130 Watt suitcase solar and a pair of Honda 2200 generators. I drive a 2015 GMC Duramax.

[Guest]

Dentil,

You should not cancel your order. You should speak with tech support at Lion Energy and ask the question. Since I see different answers to the question of TV based charging, I decided to buy the charger. Some battery manufacturers claim its not a problem. Others claim its best to isolate from the vehicle system with a DC DC Charger. LiFeP04 batteries have a BMS built in which protects the battery where I was looking for precise control which led me to the charger option.

When you hear back from Lion Energy, please post their response here for those that have purchased their product.

Jim

[steve&renee]

Dentil,

When you hear back from Lion Energy, please post their response here for those that have purchased their product.

Jim

I'm just as interested in what you find out. As you know from the other forum, I just ordered 4 of the Lion UT 1300's (at $699! ea).

-Steve

[RickLight]

Voltage from a TV will depend greatly on the TV. Newish ones have smart alternators and other electronics. I found I never got much out of my driving hours.

[Running from Gnats]

Add me to those looking for Lion Energy says.

[Dentil]

Dentil,

You should not cancel your order. You should speak with tech support at Lion Energy and ask the question. Since I see different answers to the question of TV based charging, I decided to buy the charger. Some battery manufacturers claim its not a problem. Others claim its best to isolate from the vehicle system with a DC DC Charger. LiFeP04 batteries have a BMS built in which protects the battery where I was looking for precise control which led me to the charger option.

When you hear back from Lion Energy, please post their response here for those that have purchased their product.

Jim

Good morning. I called Lion Energy this morning and asked them about charging with my TV. There response was, "We don't recommend it. You may get by with it a few times but eventually you will damage your alternator. We recommend using a Redarc 1225d or something similar. We don't recommend charging lithium batteries without a DC to DC charger."

Now what? I'm not as concerned about charging the battery while driving. I just don't want to cause damage.
I'm not sure. Conflicting information on the net. Below is a screenshot from Progressive Dynamics.
Thanks
Dennis

[michael bellish]

I also spoke to Lion Energy this morning. I also was told the same as Dentil, that the alternator will be damaged without the buffer of the DC/DC charger. The Lion Batteries are proving more problematic than my tolerance level (Need to purchase new Converter ($200+), new DC/DC Charger ($200+) and new way to monitor battery charge status ($150+)).

However, I also spoke with Battleborn. Their representative stated a DC/DC Charger would be unnecessary due to the limitations of the 7-way plug wiring that will max out at 15 amps. They assured me that their battery, without a DC/DC Charger, would not damage my alternator. They still recommend the new converter and the battery charge status system.

I am so confused. AGM's are looking very attractive at the moment!

[Guest]

So information is all over the place where I cannot state depending on model year of vehicle and from which company if damage to the alternator would occur. Some state that since the Lithium battery will consume all the power fed to it, that it can put a load on the vehicle charging system where it would put out full current. I would think that folks that calibrate smart regulators on todays vehicles would not allow the alternator to self destruct but I cannot provide a definitive answer. So not wanting to take a chance on this, I purchased the DC DC charger. Also being vehicle dependent, the battery feed circuit on my GMC is protected with a 35 amp fuse where I plan on tying in the Renogy 20 amp charger to the 7 pin connector at the trailer. Other vehicles may differ where it is worth a look.

It would also be easy to disconnect from the battery feed on the truck but when the 7 pin trailer connector is plugged in, the TV and trailer are connected together. This dual connection provides redundancy for the trailer brake break away switch. So I would not do this.

Also on the BB feedback, if voltage levels are low on the 7 pin connector, the current demand could be high so I do not agree with them entirely. This however would not exceed the protection of the TV battery feed circuit where if high enough the fuse would blow. Or the alternator would continue to put out the extra 35 amps as in my case until the BMS turns off the charge function to the battery. The cells in a BB are really no different than a Lions Energy where this is another reason I am using the DC DC charger.

Jim