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  • #2
    There are four separate, but related, issues in your post (whew!). 1) MPPT, 2) Solar Panels, 3) DC-DC Charger, 4) Inverter

    Before I forget--do you have a battery monitor installed already?

    There are so many "gotchas" to these components I'd have to write a very lengthy post to cover all the issues. So I'll boil it down to two key issues.

    #1 issue: What do you expect from the system?
    #2 issue: Is initial cost the primary driver or system capability?

    For your specific question regarding the Renogy 50A DC-DC MPPT/Charger, the issue you could run up against is the size of the wire required if you intend to charge your lithium batteries off of your TV battery/charging system. I'm not 100% familiar with the component, so unsure if there's a way to limit current draw. I forget what we've already discussed as these questions are now across several threads, so if you haven't read this thread of my 40A Renogy DC-DC Charger install please do: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...e-battle-borns

    For the solar panels, I found it was imperative to map out different panels on my roof to see how it will all fit together around the vents, air conditioning units, etc. Again, if you haven't read the extensive notes I posted check out this thread: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/solar/1...n-2019-315rlts In it you'll see how different configurations fit on the roof and a cost/performance analysis.

    For the number of panels, you must determine what will work for you regarding the wiring. Parallel, series, or a combination (the latter is what I did). I elaborate what (and why) I went with my setup in the solar thread.

    Final thought: don't buy anything until you're sure you understand what you're buying and why. Super easy to make a mistake--there's a lot to learn! (While the majority of Will's content is available online, if you buy his book I enjoyed actually having the hard copy to read in my lounge chair. You might consider buying a copy.)

    Howard

    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #3
      Just looking at the Renogy and the Panels:
      The panels on amazon review show Voc of 22.5V so that'd be below the MPPT's 25V max solar input voltage.
      So the panels would have to be wired in parallel, not series.
      Looks like 3 panels would stay below the MPPT's 660W Max Solar Input Power limit.
      Gene and Kim
      2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
      2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by howson View Post

        There are four separate, but related, issues in your post (whew!). 1) MPPT, 2) Solar Panels, 3) DC-DC Charger, 4) Inverter

        Before I forget--do you have a battery monitor installed already?

        There are so many "gotchas" to these components I'd have to write a very lengthy post to cover all the issues. So I'll boil it down to two key issues.

        #1 issue: What do you expect from the system?
        #2 issue: Is initial cost the primary driver or system capability?

        For your specific question regarding the Renogy 50A DC-DC MPPT/Charger, the issue you could run up against is the size of the wire required if you intend to charge your lithium batteries off of your TV battery/charging system. I'm not 100% familiar with the component, so unsure if there's a way to limit current draw. I forget what we've already discussed as these questions are now across several threads, so if you haven't read this thread of my 40A Renogy DC-DC Charger install please do: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...e-battle-borns

        For the solar panels, I found it was imperative to map out different panels on my roof to see how it will all fit together around the vents, air conditioning units, etc. Again, if you haven't read the extensive notes I posted check out this thread: https://gdrvowners.com/forum/solar/1...n-2019-315rlts In it you'll see how different configurations fit on the roof and a cost/performance analysis.

        For the number of panels, you must determine what will work for you regarding the wiring. Parallel, series, or a combination (the latter is what I did). I elaborate what (and why) I went with my setup in the solar thread.

        Final thought: don't buy anything until you're sure you understand what you're buying and why. Super easy to make a mistake--there's a lot to learn! (While the majority of Will's content is available online, if you buy his book I enjoyed actually having the hard copy to read in my lounge chair. You might consider buying a copy.)

        Howard
        Thanks Howard, not looking to run much. Some TV at night, couple hours, coffee pot in the am, and a sound machine at night. I do have a battery monitor. His video showed him running 4 100 watt panels in parallel and said the weakest link was the connectors?
        We usually have full hookups, but do hit Harvest Hosts for a couple nights in a row.....an occasional week out West of boondocking could be in the future.

        The other idea was to try to get some payback by running the fridge off the inverter while we are at a full hookup site to offset electric bill for monthly site. So only need enough Solar panels and 2 batteries.....I will post Wills video showing this specific dc to dc charger with Mppt controller built in.

        wire from starter battery to controller is 2 or 4 Guage I believe.
        2018 337RLS
        720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
        disc brakes, ems

        Comment


        • #5
          The video in question
          https://youtu.be/JtAUrS4zNSA
          2018 337RLS
          720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
          disc brakes, ems

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gbkims View Post
            Just looking at the Renogy and the Panels:
            The panels on amazon review show Voc of 22.5V so that'd be below the MPPT's 25V max solar input voltage.
            So the panels would have to be wired in parallel, not series.
            Looks like 3 panels would stay below the MPPT's 660W Max Solar Input Power limit.
            Thanks, would 4 be too much? Power wise. I like the panels because of the charging ability on cloudy days or low light. They also have the diode on each panel. I would wire in Parallel. Keeping it simple at 12volts.....
            2018 337RLS
            720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
            disc brakes, ems

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jims94vmx View Post
              The video in question
              https://youtu.be/JtAUrS4zNSA
              I don't have all the answers, but I do have a few questions (and opinions) that may spur investigation. Take or leave anything below--I don't claim to know everything. Also, I admit I'm a Victron fanboy, even though I did go with the Renogy 40A DC-DC Charger since Victron's BuckBoost device is extremely expensive and isn't "smart" (so really no gain over the Renogy).

              1) Will Prowse used the same type of battery (LifePO4) as the "starter" and "RV" battery in his video. What happens in the real world when the vehicle has a lead-acid battery (there's two in my F-350) and the RV has LifePO4? What charging profile is selected on the Renogy 50A device?

              2) In my setup there's a wired Anderson connector between the RV and the truck for the DC-DC Charger. If I had the 50A Renogy, it appears that voltage would be sitting on that connector (on the RV side) even when it's not hooked up to the truck when solar is charging the RV battery. Personally, I don't like that. I don't want a live wire when it is not being utilized.

              3) In a Victron MPPT, it will not start charging a battery until the solar voltage level from the panel(s) is at least 5v over the battery's standing voltage. If this is true with the 50A Renogy and because it requires parallel wiring, the 170W panel you've chosen will have to be operating near it's peak capacity to send any charge to the battery. Why? Because the specific panel you're looking at has a max power voltage(Vmp) of 19.01V per https://www.bougerv.com/products/170w-1. If your Battle Born is at 13.4v, that means your solar panel will have to reach ~18.4--a relatively very high level--before it will even BEGIN to charge the battery. (I know the battery voltage + 5v is true to turn on Victron MPPTs. Again--not sure of the Renogy MPPT or when it starts charging but I encourage you to check if you are seriously considering buying the device.)

              If you could wire two 170W solar panels in series, each panel would only have to generate 9.2v (9.2v x 2=18.4v) to start sending current to the same battery that had a 13.4 level. You'd get a LOT more solar power transferred to your battery. That's exactly why my 100W panels are wired in series pairs and then the pairs are in parallel to make up 1200W.

              However, two 170W panels will make the max voltage potentially ~38.02v, so you might run into max voltage capability issues with the Renogy. (I forget what Will said in the video about the max it will take.)

              Getting a larger panel doesn't solve the issue, either. If you have a panel similar to what Grand Design is using (the 300W Jaboni) it has a max power output of 32.26v (it's basically two panels wired in series made into one panel). The problem is, again, you may run into a voltage limitation with the Renogy.

              For *me* the Renogy 50A would not work. For a trailer setup there's too many disadvantages (IMO). I like having the MPPT and DC-DC Charger separate so I can control what is charging the battery and when. (I often leave my Renogy DC-DC Charger off if the solar is providing plenty of power to my batteries.) I have no need for solar to charge my vehicle batteries. In addition, I really like Victron's bluetooth connectivity (Smart Solar MPPTs) so I can check what's going on very easily using my phone. With my system being all Victron, I can even check it right from my desk here in the office over the internet. Too cool. I just took the snapshot below in real time.

              Click image for larger version

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              Garret Towne, AMSolar's engineer, has a lot of really good videos explaining how (and why) to configure a solar system along with solar controllers. Look him up on YouTube! Well worth your time. Here's an example:



              If Victron equipment is too pricey, consider the items on Will's lists at

              Click image for larger version

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              I truly hope this is somewhat helpful. Good luck--and please follow up with what you eventually install.

              Howard
              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by howson View Post

                3) In a Victron MPPT, it will not start charging a battery until the solar voltage level from the panel(s) [I]is at least 5v over the battery's standing voltage.
                Howard that's a good point about the PV voltage required for the Victron MPPT to start charging.

                I see a few other solar MPPT charge controllers may have this info tucked away in different parts of their manuals.

                Blue Sky Solar Boost 3024iL 40A 12/24VDC MPPT PV Charge Controller - rev 2011:
                PV must supply at least 0.15A at just above battery voltage to begin charge.

                Victron Smart Solar MPPT 100|30, 100|50
                PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V.

                EpSolar Tracer BN series
                MPP Voltage range: Battery voltage+2V

                MorningStar PS-MPPT-25, PS-MPPT-40
                NOTE: Before connecting the battery, measure the open-circuit voltage. It must be over 10 volts to start the controller.


                The DC to DC + MPPT chargers:

                Renogy DCC50S 12V 50A DC On-Board Charger with MPPT
                Solar Charging will be triggered if the PV input voltage is higher than 15V for 10 seconds.


                Kisae DMT1250 12V 50A
                DC Input (CH2 – PV Solar Array/ Panel) - PV Input Voltage Range 14.5 - 45V

                ​​​​​​​
                Jims94vmx "Thanks, would 4 be too much? Power wise"

                I don't think the Renogy DCC50S would handle 4 170W panels.
                I think a MPPT only solar charger would be a better choice for a solar setup than the DC-DC + MPPT.
                Gene and Kim
                2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
                2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks, learning so much. Interesting. The reviews on the panels seemed to be 6 to 9 amps, so 3 should panels should achieve the charging threshold? Victron looks good.

                  it would be nice to stay around 2 grand for the components (not including batteries).
                  2018 337RLS
                  720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
                  disc brakes, ems

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    got a message from Renogy saying the DC to DC charger is not limited to 25 amps when using just solar. Can handle 660 watts input to 50 amps.....just like when in alternator charging only is 50 amps....it splits it if any solar is sensed along with the engine charging....then it is 25 and 25......

                    just figured i would chime in......still looking. Renogy has a nice complete kit with 50 off of 500 and another 5% off if signing up for newsletter.....thinking of the 400 watt premium set with the 40 amp charge controller and bluetooth....then just getting the 40 amp DC to DC stand alone charger with kit to put me over a grand......thinking.....LOL
                    2018 337RLS
                    720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
                    disc brakes, ems

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      okay, starting the purchasing phase and had a question on the charge controller....decided on 4 170w panels wired 2s2p and those rough numbers come out to 24v and 20a for the array. my thought was i was able to go with the 100/30 Victron since i am under volts and amps....but the 680w has me concerned. I know these aren't super efficient and overpaneling to a certain degree is fine....but now i am starting to second guess....of course i ordered said controller......
                      2018 337RLS
                      720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
                      disc brakes, ems

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jims94vmx View Post
                        okay, starting the purchasing phase and had a question on the charge controller....decided on 4 170w panels wired 2s2p and those rough numbers come out to 24v and 20a for the array. my thought was i was able to go with the 100/30 Victron since i am under volts and amps....but the 680w has me concerned. I know these aren't super efficient and overpaneling to a certain degree is fine....but now i am starting to second guess....of course i ordered said controller......
                        I can't post the link as my work computer won't allow me to access it, but the pic below shows the video you can search for on YouTube. If what you ordered meets what Garret recommends you'll be fine.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                        2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jims94vmx View Post
                          okay, starting the purchasing phase and had a question on the charge controller....decided on 4 170w panels wired 2s2p and those rough numbers come out to 24v and 20a for the array. my thought was i was able to go with the 100/30 Victron since i am under volts and amps....but the 680w has me concerned. I know these aren't super efficient and overpaneling to a certain degree is fine....but now i am starting to second guess....of course i ordered said controller......

                          Do the 170W panels have an image of the specs or a datasheet that have the number to plug into the Victron MPPT Sizing Calculator?
                          Victron MPPT Sizing Calculator https://www.victronenergy.com/mppt-calculator
                          Note: there's an excel spreadsheet that's supposed to do more detailed calcs, https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...-Calc-1_9.xlsx. Since I don't have Excel I haven't tried it.

                          https://richsolar.com/collections/ri...tt-solar-panel
                          Plugged in the numbers available from a Rich Solar 170W Mono panel and it comes up with SmartSolar 100|50

                          Edit: I put 2 Series, 2 Parallel for the Sizing Calculator. You'd have to double check that that is correct for 2 panels in series, and then putting the strings in parallel.


                          Click image for larger version  Name:	RICH SOLAR RS-M170 170W SOLAR PANEL.png Views:	0 Size:	287.5 KB ID:	27059Click image for larger version  Name:	Rich Solar 170W - Victron MPPT Sizing Calculator - SmartSolar MPPT 100-50.jpg Views:	0 Size:	140.6 KB ID:	27061
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by gbkims; 08-14-2020, 01:58 PM.
                          Gene and Kim
                          2015 Grand Design Reflection 317RST
                          2017 RAM 3500 CC, LB, 4x2, 6.7L CTD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ended up getting a great deal for the 100\50 from Battleborn. So that is done.....so have more flexibility on panels.

                            ran my rv using my 1500 watt inverter connected to my entire rv through the 50 amp exterior plug....ran for 6 hours and i was at 40% and that included water pump, 2 tower fans, 4 fans on back of fridge, tv with surround sound for 1.5 hours etc.

                            Charged up fast using my 2800watt honda. So second battleborn will also be in the cards....still thinking about the 150 to 180 panel size and getting 4....wiring 2s2p......
                            2018 337RLS
                            720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
                            disc brakes, ems

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              fridge was on propane btw
                              2018 337RLS
                              720w solar, 100/50 scc 1500w psw 2 battleborn
                              disc brakes, ems

                              Comment

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