Thinking about upgrading my factory solar system

[howson]

A GX device is the heart of the system, Brian. It can be the Cerbo GX (with the Touch 50 screen) or the Color Control GX (CCGX) which I have--but you need one of them.

With the CCGX, there's a small WiFi dongle that plugs into one of it's USB ports. That enables the CCGX to communicate over WiFi. In my case it's tied to the Winegard Air 360+'s Gateway router, which in turn is connected to my home WiFi. (If camping the Winegard is connected to the campground's WiFi.)

That setup allow me--even as I write this--to quickly check my system status via victron's website (or my phone if I wanted). Below is as of right this instant. There's actually a lot going on in that picture that's not self-evident (due to me running ESS).



If you don't want to spend the $$ on a GX device, you'll have to be within Bluetooth range of the BMV and/or SmartSolar. You'll "only" be able to monitor each device individually (and not the Multiplus or how everything is interacting).

Below are three screenshots from my phone. The middle screen is the "menu" of devices the VictronConnect app found. By selecting one of them I get the screen it's pointing to. (Hope that makes sense.) Note there's no "Multiplus" option, nor can I tell by the values exactly what the AC loads are vs the DC, etc.

I probably sound like a Victron salesperson--sorry--I really have 0 stake in what you choose, Brian. Just a wee bit of a "Victron FanBoy" so forgive my exuberance.

[howson]

bertschb -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd see with the bluetooth dongle that connects to the Multiplus. Wasn't it Neil that had that dongle (and returned it)? ncitro ? I know he programmed his own CCGX.

[ncitro]

Sorry I have been away for a bit. What Howard described earlier is exactly what I did. I got a 10" steel enclosure. All the grounds tie to a stud in the box. I brought into it the output of my EMS. Going out was a piece of 4 conductor 6AWG SOOW cord that went to the power distribution panel (PDP). Also going out was two runs of 3 conductor 6 AWG SOOW cord to the Multiplus (input and output).

Box was something like this, but I picked it up at Home Depot:

https://www.amazon.com/BUD-Industrie...4554075&sr=8-5

Connections were:

Neutrals: All tied together (1 in from EMS, 1 out to Multiplus, 1 in from Multiplus, 1 out to PDP). I was not super sure about tying all the neutrals together, but found a reference to someone doing it on the Victron boards. If I plug into a 15 amp GFCI (like in someones garage) it trips, and I think this might be causing it. Have not researched it any further yet.

Grounds: All tied together (1 in from EMS, 1 out to Multiplus, 1 in from Multiplus, 1 out to PDP) as well as to a screw in the box just to be safe.

L1 Hot (the loads I did not need on the Multiplus) come into the box and go right back out to the L1 side of the PDP.

L2 Hot connects to the Multiplus Input.

Multiplus Output: Connects to the L2 side of the PDP.

I used these insulated splices, I have used them before and they work great. I got a two port for L1, the Multiplus in, and the Multiplus out, a four port for the neutrals and
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I put a terminal strip in the bottom of the box for the grounds, just drilled a couple holes and through bolted the terminal strip.

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/MURRAY-ECLX07...4553930&sr=8-4

Hope this makes sense, it was pretty straightforward, hardest part was making the connections in the box because I put it behind the false wall in the basement and it was tight in there.

[ncitro]

bertschb -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd see with the bluetooth dongle that connects to the Multiplus. Wasn't it Neil that had that dongle (and returned it)? ncitro ? I know he programmed his own CCGX.

You are right. I started off with one but sent it back. As I recall you could not change any settings other than the incoming power for power assist. I needed the MK3 cable to program it anyway, and I had the display in the Victron software I run on my Rasperry Pi and can set incoming power there, so I figured I would save a little and go without it. If you were not going to have any kind of CCGX or Venus then I would either get the Bluetooth or the Digital MultiControl, so you can have some idea what is going on and set the incoming power:

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B07DBQYRJ6

[bertschb]

A GX device is the heart of the system, Brian. It can be the Cerbo GX (with the Touch 50 screen) or the Color Control GX (CCGX) which I have--but you need one of them.

OK, GX device it is! I'll get the Cerbo. I saw an interview with a Victron rep who said they are phasing out the CCGX. I wonder if I can get the Cerbo and with that alone, use my phone rather than the Touch 50 screen to see the combined data? I don't mind spending the money on the Touch 50. I love gadgets. I just don't want to run an HDMI cable for the display then have to get up out my recliner to look at the screen :-)

Your description of seeing each device individually in Victron Connect without a GX device makes sense. I have the BMV-712 so I know how you select that device to view battery status. Having to back out of that and select another device is not what I'm looking for.

[howson]

I wonder if I can get the Cerbo and with that alone, use my phone rather than the Touch 50 screen to see the combined data? I don't mind spending the money on the Touch 50.

That's an excellent question. From page 1 of the Cerbo manual at https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...rbo-gx#manuals

The Cerbo GX sits at the heart of your energy installation. All the other system-components - such as inverter/chargers, solar chargers, and batteries - are connected to it. The Cerbo GX ensures that they all work in harmony. There is an optional (emphasis mine) touch screen accessory for the Cerbo GX called the GX Touch. Monitoring of the system can be done either with the Cerbo GX in front of you - or from anywhere in the world using an internet connection and the VRM Portal.

You can just use your phone or laptop!

[bertschb]

You can just use your phone or laptop!

Sweet! Thanks for looking that up Howard.

[bertschb]

ncitro

Thank you for your input Neil! If I understand what you wrote, I think you're basically combining the two junction boxes shown in that drawing I posted earlier into a single box. I'm going to work on a diagram with a single box as you've described so it makes more sense to me.

I was thinking of using something other than wire nuts to connect the wires in the junction box as I don't like wire nuts. Those insulated splices look like a great idea. Thanks for that suggestion.

Now that I finally understand how to wire the Multiplus to the panel, I'll order the Multiplus along with the Cerbo and MK3-USB this evening.

[ncitro]

That’s right exactly. The splices work really nice. They’ve got an anti oxidant in them and everything

I’ve got an extra mk3 USB cable I’ve been meaning to unload on eBay if you’re interested. Yours for $50 if you want it. If you want to order it with your other stuff I don’t blame you though.

[bertschb]

I’ve got an extra mk3 USB cable I’ve been meaning to unload on eBay if you’re interested.

Dang! Just placed my order with Battleborn. Thanks though. Had to order the Cerbo from Amazon as BB doesn't sell it.

[ncitro]

No problem good luck! Let us know if you have any questions.

[wygieman]

Sorry, I didn't read your post very well. You'll definitely want the hybrid technology if you do any "moochdocking" or get put on a 30A site at a campground.

The wiring shows exactly what I was suggesting, Brian. I blocked out all the non-applicable stuff (for this conversation). I think that second junction box (near the PDP) allows the wire to return to it's OEM size (versus two separate wires) making it very easy to install in the PDP?

[/QUOTE]

Howard, a question on your diagram. My system is set up functionally similar to the diagram in that I put my hybrid inverter on one leg of the 50 amp circuit where all the circuits I want to have inverted power are. The difference is I do not join the neutral wires as you portray. I simply bypass the inverter/charger (with a morris connector) with the red hot line and take it to the power distribution panel. When the external power is on, the transfer switch opens, black, red, and white are all connected to the power distribution panel as normal and neutral is connected to ground back at the site power distribution. When the power is off, the inverter supplies power to black and white and neutral is connected to ground at the inverter where it should be. It seems to me that with your diagram, neutral would be connected to ground at both the inverter and the site power supply which might cause problems with gfci circuits. Am I confused?

[howson]

Am I confused?

Probably not. That diagram was from someone else and is meant to convey a concept, not an actual wiring diagram. At least that was my intent.

I need to write down the expertise of the forum members...I know there are many here who are (or were) professional electricians or engineers. I'm a "shadetree hack" at best. If I was actually doing this I'd have to do more research and ask more questions to ensure it's wired correctly.

Jkwilson -- apologize for always tagging you on these questions, but you're the first one that comes to mind with electrical questions. Can you address wygieman's concern? If the diagram is truly wrong I'll take it down and edit, then re-post.

Thanks!

Howard

[bertschb]

...It seems to me that with your diagram, neutral would be connected to ground at both the inverter and the site power supply which might cause problems with gfci circuits.

Neil made reference to this potential GFCI problem in post # 33 above:

Neutrals: All tied together (1 in from EMS, 1 out to Multiplus, 1 in from Multiplus, 1 out to PDP). I was not super sure about tying all the neutrals together, but found a reference to someone doing it on the Victron boards. If I plug into a 15 amp GFCI (like in someones garage) it trips, and I think this might be causing it. Have not researched it any further yet.

The original wiring diagram that Howard modified for clarity here was created by user "cookinwitdiesel" on another forum. A new wiring diagram would be SUPER helpful to me and anybody else who is installing a single Multiplus in their 50 amp RV. Thanks to all who are participating in this thread. Your feedback is invaluable.

[ncitro]

Yeah, I did not bond the neutrals to the ground, but did tie them all together. My thinking was if I had an issue with the Multiplus (I did so I am glad I did this) then if it failed and I was plugged into shore power I would have a neutral to the PDP and I could power up the non-inverted side of the panel. In fact when this happend I moved a few of my breakers over to the other side of the panel so I could run them. If I ran the neutrals only through the inverter then I would not have had power in the PDP when my the transfer switch in my Multiplus failed.

I should stress that my Multiplus failed under warranty, a couple days after install, and I got a replacement and all is well. That said failures do happen so I try to design in such a way that I can have a workaround when they crop up.

I would certainly value the input of an actual electrician on this (I also fall under the shadetree hack category, although I do work with high voltage x-ray equipment for a living), but I thought through the wiring quite thoroughly and it does seem sound. The key is to keep the grounds and neutrals isolated from each other and let the Multiplus manage the bonding.

As I stated, it does trip my GFCI in my garage, but its a case of one and may be my outlet. I just plugged it into my garage door opener outlet and moved on as we were loading up to go on a trip. I have not tried it anywhere else yet to troubleshoot any further. Its plugged into 50 amps at my office where I keep it for the winter.