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  • #16
    bertschb ,
    If you change your mind, I'm confident that we can come up with a plan similar to what Neil wrote above. Even if it's just a paper exercise it might be interesting to do it on paper if not for real.

    First step would be mapping out the breakers and what they protect (outlets or devices) in your camper. Doesn't have to exactly the same as mine but the pic below should give you an idea of what I'm suggesting. The "map" only needs to be the 120V side of the camper. This doesn't involve anything other than flipping breakers and running around the camper with an outlet tester to see what works (and what doesn't). I will admit that for some of the devices (converter, water heater) I assumed GD had labeled the breakers correctly. So far that assumption hasn't come back to haunt me!

    Click image for larger version

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    Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

    2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

    Comment


    • #17
      Update:

      I decided that I can install everything but the inverter now then when the AM Solar Smart Phase Selector is in stock later this year, I can replace my existing inverter with the Multiplus. This will still increase my solar from 300 watts to 1,460 watts. My battery capacity will increase from 210ah to 400ah. The factory 2,000 watt inverter isn't enough to run the fridge with any other high draw appliances but I can still run everything else and the solar upgrade will do a good job recharging the batteries fairly quickly.

      This will be a much more manageable project because I'm not worried about messing with splitting the panel or moving breakers around. When the Smart Phase Selector becomes available, I can easily connect that to the panel just like my EMS is connected now. I know how to do that.

      Also, I've decided for now to add this new equipment to the front bay where the current equipment is. Again, this will make the project easier to manage because most of what I'm upgrading is already there. It was tempting to move all the equipment to the basement but that just adds more complexity to a project that is complex enough already. I don't really use the front compartment for anything anyway so that will be basically dedicated to the solar/batteries/inverter, etc.

      I placed all my orders this morning. Now I just wait. Battle Born said they won't even process my order for 10-14 work days.

      Today I'm going to replace some soft hose. After that I need to replace the rear basement wall that I moved 15" to the rear. Glad I'm retired!
      Brian & Kellie
      2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
      2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

      Previous setups:
      2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
      2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

      Comment


      • #18
        I went with a bigger battery bank and just 560W of solar. I had AM Solar put the panels and solar converter in the Solitude and I did the bank. I did a small inverter. The rig came with a 1000W inverter for the residential frig. I left it alone to do it's job. There is 4 lithium batteries in the box in the generator compartment.KEN

        2016 Grand Design 380TH as of 10-29-2015. It's HUGE.
        Update: Traded Momentum for a New 2018 374TH-R Solitude as of 3-16-19
        10-19-18 - 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie Crew Cab 4 X 4 Long Box.

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        • #19
          Solar panels arrived. They all tested out OK with no damage. REC 365w Alpha panels (4 for now).

          Click image for larger version

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          Brian & Kellie
          2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
          2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

          Previous setups:
          2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
          2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by howson View Post
            If you change your mind, I'm confident that we can come up with a plan similar to what Neil wrote above. Even if it's just a paper exercise it might be interesting to do it on paper if not for real. First step would be mapping out the breakers and what they protect (outlets or devices) in your camper.
            I continue to research what I need to do to eventually integrate a Multiplus into my system. I'm now thinking the AM Solar Smart Phase Selector may not be necessary. I looked at the diagram pengle created (shown below) and modified it slightly. THANK YOUpengle for doing this work and sharing it! Very helpful! By fiddling with this drawing, I realize everything I want to be able to run from a Multiplus is on L2. The Smart Phase Selector would power both legs from the Multiplus and I don't need anything from L1 while on an inverter.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	310GK-R Outlet Locations.jpg Views:	0 Size:	139.9 KB ID:	44219

            I know the typical way to wire the Multiplus is to have the AC Out 1 go to the panel. I assume this means when shore power is lost, the Multiplus powers whatever is connected to AC Out 1. Sooooo, can AC Out 1 from the Multiplus go to just the L2 side of the main panel? And if so, can AC Out 2 from the Multiplus be connected to the L1 side of the main panel? Finally, am I correct in thinking that AC Out 2 just passes power through the Multiplus when shore power is connected? If so, when shore power is lost everything on L1 would drop off which is what I want.

            As you can tell, I don't know if it's possible to power each leg of the panel separately and what that might involve. The only work I've done at the panel in the RV's I've owned is adding the EMS. I've never looked closely at the panel to see where the wires from the EMS are actually connected to the panel. I just connect the wires at the same location they were at from the factory (coming from shore power). I'll eventually pull the panel out and see if I can make some sense of it but figured I'd start with you guys since this is second nature to many of you.

            And if you're curious why I keep asking similar questions just phrased a little differently, yes, I'm slow.

            On a different note, I ordered a 5th and 6th heated Battleborn battery yesterday. Today I removed the factory 300w solar panel. New brackets arrive Monday so I'll start mounting the new solar panels next week.
            Last edited by bertschb; 02-27-2021, 12:17 AM.
            Brian & Kellie
            2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
            2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

            Previous setups:
            2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
            2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

            Comment


            • #21
              I'm really grateful to bertschb and Yoda for teaching me alll this solar s.....tuff.
              Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
              Nash County, NC
              2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ThePowells View Post
                I'm really grateful to bertschb and Yoda for teaching me alll this solar s.....tuff.
                I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. There are a few things I can teach people but the electrical system in my RV aint one of them! I have no clue what I'm doing but I figure if I spend eight hours every day researching this for a few weeks, I may figure out juuuuuust enough to replace my factory solar system.
                Brian & Kellie
                2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                Previous setups:
                2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by bertschb View Post

                  I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. There are a few things I can teach people but the electrical system in my RV aint one of them! I have no clue what I'm doing but I figure if I spend eight hours every day researching this for a few weeks, I may figure out juuuuuust enough to replace my factory solar system.
                  Nope, it just that y'all are asking my future questions..
                  Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
                  Nash County, NC
                  2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    bertschb

                    Brian

                    The shore power line is connected to the double pole 50 amp breaker in the power distribution panel. Each side of this breaker powers one side or Line of the RV. If you determine which side of the breaker that you need power to the items you want to power with the battery bank then that is where you will want to feed from the battery bank.

                    The other Brian.
                    Brian & Michelle
                    2018 Reflection 29RS
                    2022 Chevy 3500HD

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ThePowells View Post
                      I'm really grateful to bertschb and Yoda for teaching me alll this solar s.....tuff.
                      LOL. Thanks but I have done nothing to help. Its TucsonJim howson Cate&Rob Country Campers and a bunch of others I cant remember off hand (need coffee). They have saved my hiney and cost me more $$$ than I want to think about. All Good . Whats been fun is listening and then being the engineer I am looking up what they have said. Look at how many times I had to re-do my wiring planand it is still not complete. But they stood by me and kept me straight. So please listen to them, not me. I almost have all of my parts. One Warning - whatever your budget, double it as the little things add up. Example Terminals and crimp connectors (good ones) are pricey. Then there is the wire and screws, cabling, etc. It adds up fast. And then there are the tools.

                      So thanks for the thought Jerry but as Brian bertschb "I may figure out juuuuuust enough" - in my case that dangerous.

                      Hope this helps
                      Keith
                      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th whee, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL) (CCC 4062lbs), B&W 25K OEM Companion,. SteadyFast system, Trailer reverse lights, rear receiver spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, Solar, Custom 6K axles upgrade, and other modifications.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
                        bertschbIf you determine which side of the breaker that you need power to the items you want to power with the battery bank then that is where you will want to feed from the battery bank.
                        Country Campers - thanks for the reply!

                        I want the inverter to supply power to the L2 side of my panel (which in my case includes the factory sub-panel) while disconnected from shore power. I still need power for the other leg while connected to shore power. I'm starting to think this isn't possible with a Multiplus alone.

                        It appears the Magnum MSH3012RV will do what I'm looking for (power both legs of the panel similar to what a Multiplus and SPS would do). But, the information available to me on Victron Connect would be limited with the Multiplus missing.
                        Last edited by bertschb; 02-28-2021, 11:29 AM.
                        Brian & Kellie
                        2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                        2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                        Previous setups:
                        2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                        2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bertschb View Post

                          Country Campers - thanks for the reply!

                          I want the inverter to supply power to the L2 side of my panel (which in my case includes the factory sub-panel) while disconnected from shore power. I still need power for the other leg while connected to shore power. I'm starting to think this isn't possible with a Multiplus alone.

                          It appears the Magnum MSH3012RV will do what I'm looking for (power both legs of the panel similar to what a Multiplus and SPS would do). But, the information available to me on Victron Connect would be limited with the Multiplus missing.
                          The advantage to the GoPower is the second connection. The disadvantage is it does not provide Power Assist to both legs, so effectively in actual application it's no different from the Multiplus. GoPower does not document this very well--takes a bit of digging to uncover the truth. Power Assist is by far one of the best things about Victron's Multiplus. (If you don't understand what that is do more research!)

                          You can do what you want to do with the Multiplus.
                          • Shore Power > EMS
                          • EMS L1 Output (Hot) > Power Distribution Panel (PDP) L1 50A Breaker (Neutral and Ground to PDP connections)
                          • EMS L2 Output (Hot, Neutral and Ground) > Multiplus 120vAC Input
                          • Multiplus 120vAC Output > PDP L2 50A Breaker, Neutral and Ground to PDP connections
                          I think an electrically-safe junction box would be required after the EMS and prior to the PDP to tie together the neutral wires going in separate directions (after the EMS) before they go to the PDP and Multiplus. Also true for the ground wires. AMSolar's SPS does this internally.

                          The Multiplus will automatically pass shore power (when sensed), not inverted power, to the PDP across the output.

                          When shore power drops, inverter starts immediately (so fast enough the microwave clock doesn't reset). L1 of course will be "dead" since it is not connected to the inverter, but that's OK.

                          Again, what you're contemplating is exactly what I'd do if starting from scratch. From experience, nothing on the other leg is used when running on the inverter so I don't need an SPS.
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by howson View Post
                            The advantage to the GoPower is the second connection. The disadvantage is it does not provide Power Assist to both legs, so effectively in actual application it's no different from the Multiplus. GoPower does not document this very well--takes a bit of digging to uncover the truth. Power Assist is by far one of the best things about Victron's Multiplus. (If you don't understand what that is do more research!)
                            howson

                            Hi Howard

                            The inverter I'm considering is the Magnum Energy model MSH3012RV, not a GoPower.
                            https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...-msh-rv-series

                            I think it does have the "hybrid" functionality (e.g. Power Assist) like the Multiplus with the added advantage of a split phase connection to the panel. Here is what the Magnum website says about this inverter:

                            "Hybrid Technology: Most inverters only use one source of energy to power loads, either from incoming AC power – shore or AC generator – or from the batteries. The MSH-RV Series combines the energy from both sources to power loads. This allows the inverter to recharge the batteries when there is surplus power or deliver more power to the loads if they require more than the AC input can supply by itself."

                            I'm following a guy on Youtube (Explorist.life) who thinks Victron is working on a 120/240 split phase version of the Multiplus. Of course, he has no idea when it might be released but what I might do is install the Magnum now and use it until the new Multiplus is released then replace it so I can take full advantage of the Victron Connect data stream.

                            Another alternative is what you recommended with splitting the wire from shore power. I found a diagram made by cookinwitdiesel on another RV forum that I think shows what you are describing. Is this what you are thinking?
                            There is no EMS but otherwise I think it's what you've described.

                            RV Inverter Design - Phase 1 Victron LiFePO4 - Dual Shore Power.pdf
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by bertschb; 02-28-2021, 11:39 PM.
                            Brian & Kellie
                            2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                            2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                            Previous setups:
                            2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                            2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bertschb View Post

                              howson

                              Hi Howard

                              The inverter I'm considering is the Magnum Energy model MSH3012RV, not a GoPower.
                              https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...-msh-rv-series

                              I think it does have the "hybrid" functionality (e.g. Power Assist) like the Multiplus with the added advantage of a split phase connection to the panel. Here is what the Magnum website says about this inverter:

                              "Hybrid Technology: Most inverters only use one source of energy to power loads, either from incoming AC power – shore or AC generator – or from the batteries. The MSH-RV Series combines the energy from both sources to power loads. This allows the inverter to recharge the batteries when there is surplus power or deliver more power to the loads if they require more than the AC input can supply by itself."
                              Sorry, I didn't read your post very well. You'll definitely want the hybrid technology if you do any "moochdocking" or get put on a 30A site at a campground.

                              The wiring shows exactly what I was suggesting, Brian. I blocked out all the non-applicable stuff (for this conversation). I think that second junction box (near the PDP) allows the wire to return to it's OEM size (versus two separate wires) making it very easy to install in the PDP?

                              Update: As identified later in this thread, the schematic below should not be implemented in an actual installation. The diagram only conveys a concept. Please keep reading and don't miss Gene's diagram in post 47!

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	Exactly.JPG Views:	0 Size:	44.4 KB ID:	44364
                              Last edited by howson; 03-01-2021, 02:00 PM.
                              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                              2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by howson View Post
                                The wiring shows exactly what I was suggesting, Brian.
                                OK, I think I have it figured out. I pulled the cover off my panel and see one black wire feeding one leg of the panel and the red wire feeding the other leg which makes sense now. It should be easy to send one wire from the EMS through a junction box and to the panel and the other through the inverter then to the panel.

                                In my case, I really don't need the Smart Phase Selector as I have no need to power anything from the L1 side of my panel. I'm pretty excited now because I can use a Victron inverter and power everything I want off the inverter without moving circuits or adding a sub panel...or waiting for the SPS.

                                OK, bonus question-
                                I want to be able to monitor all the Victron Equipment (batteries, charge controller, inverter). I have a BMV-712 and I've ordered a SmartSolar charge controller and plan to order a Multiplus. I was going to get the Cerbo and Touch 50 but it sounds like I might be able to monitor everything from the Victron Connect app. Is that correct? I don't really have a good place to mount a Touch 50 and don't want to pull wires for it anyway. I'd like to just grab my phone and check things that way. Also, we live in our RV full time so I have no need to monitor things remotely via wifi. I plan to get the Victron MK3-USB USB adapter so I can update the firmware. Is there anything else I need to see what is shown below? Bluetooth adapter for the inverter maybe?

                                This is what I want to be able to see on my iPhone.
                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Screen Shot 2021-02-28 at 1.27.34 PM.png Views:	0 Size:	352.3 KB ID:	44372
                                Last edited by howson; 02-28-2021, 05:28 PM.
                                Brian & Kellie
                                2020 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, MORryde IS, 1,460w solar and 540ah BBGC3
                                2020 Ford F-350 Platinum SRW PSD Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch

                                Previous setups:
                                2019 Grand Design Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 Ford F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
                                2016 Grand Design Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch

                                Comment

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