Yoda's Victron MultiPlus and Solar Install - just hope I don't mess up.

[Yoda]

It was a very windy day today so I got the basics started. I started assembling my Warren scaffolding. I only got as far as the lower assembly and outriggers, but too windy to go up any more so I unloaded the front bay. Then I started second guessing myself - not good.

I need to mover my aux fuse block from the right to the left side to make room for the MPPT controllers and the rest of the gear including the MultiPlus.

Right side

Left side - I will be removing the factory disconnect switch.

Then I got to thinking about leaving the stuff where it is and moving the battery box and the MultiPlus to the left side. The I remembered I had to brace the floor for the two batteries I had.

Original battery configuration

Brace below to keep front bay floor from buckling.

So I resolved to go with my original plan. install gear on right side, and still have some shelving to put gear on as I don't think I need to go past the existing light centered on the back wall (it doesn't work for some reason). After cutting all the zip ties I had it appears it will be easy to move everything over. The Aux fuse block powers my CPAP plugs in the bedroom and my aux backup lights. I bought a larger fuse block so I will have extra space for any new circuits.

Once everything is moved I plan to do a full size mock up of the space to see where everything will fit, then use that to cut an aluminum backing plate to mount things too. That should give me a good heat sink for everything. Based on the framing I will end up with about 1/4" behind it for air flow. I may use my plus nuts as the mounting method.

Tomorrow I will label my wires and see if moving the fuse block goes OK.

Now one question - what brand of Zip ties are good. I found most of what I had installed (HF and Walmart) were already brittle. The black ones I got from HD seemed OK.

Wish me luck
Keith

[bertschb]

Wish me luck

You'll do fine Keith! I figure if somebody like me who knows nothing about solar, electricity, batteries, wiring or just about anything else to do with a solar project can assemble the pieces and get it to work - ANYBODY can! Just take your time and quadruple check everything before you flip switches.

[Yoda]

check everything before you flip switches.

You mean I haft to flip a switch

Keith

[hshan]

First post on this forum (hope I've fulfilled the newbie stuff). I've been lurking and following along with everyone's solar endeavors. bertschb has been helping me get setup via PM. Great resources here and so glad you guys are sharing so we can learn. Last of my stuff is coming this week for my attempt. Following you Yoda! Good luck!

[Yoda]

I did not get much done today due to the winds and it being a bit cooler.

I have some questions on the factory disconnect switch, It appears from the factory positive buss bar a positive wire goes into the belly(they also ran a negative wire too), run across the front of the unit then up to the disconnect switch, then runs back down into the belly and back to the distribution panel. I tied these wires up when I did my belly of the beast project, but I forgot to take better pictures. To remove I would need to drop the belly again, so for now I will leave as is.

These are the wires running from one side to the other. I don't remember seeing a pair running back to the distribution center. I need to move all of the heat ducting out of the way (disconnect from heater) Any tips on how to manage. Do they accordion up? The tanks shown are the gray (1 of 2) and black tank.

When I do my install I will have disconnect switches on each pair of batteries. I thought I would wire each 6V pair separately and not as a bank of 4 in series/parallel so in case one goes bad it does not kill the whole set. Thoughts?

Thanks
Keith

[Country Campers]

Yoda

My RV has the same red wire going to the disconnect and a black wire coming from the disconnect , not sure why they did this. I also only have one red wire going to the distribution panel , there is no black or ground wire traveling with the red to the panel. The distribution panel gets is ground from the frame somewhere underneath , my ground is near the steps. I moved the factory disconnect switch and therefor do not have the red/black wires under the belly anymore , I actually have 2 red wires going to the switch , the way it should be.

Brian

[Jlawles2]

On my 5er, the ground is below the bus bar. Hard to see buried back behind the battery and under the wiring. Single self tapping screw with 5 or 6 ring terminals on it. It got upgraded with a ground bus bar.

In the below pic you can see the silver screw with the white wire and yellow ring terminal. That's the ground and almost exactly what mine looked like.

[Yoda]

Thanks folks - I spent the morning at the Dentist -was supposed to be a simple cleaning - turned out to be not fun. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day to figure this out. Getting old and things wearing out. At least I have a good dentist that I trust. New replacement full crown next Wednesday.... Something wonderful to look forward too help get my project done......NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Weather is not perfect (60's cold and windy), but I hope to get started on moving stuff once I sort out the Sumo springs - I need to correct some of my install errors (see my install thread). Should be easy for once, just need to get organized and do it. I even made a list to follow this time. Write up and pictures to follow.
Keith

[Yoda]

Good day today - got the new fuse block installed and partially wired in.


I also uncovered the disconnect switch. Why on earth would GD us a black wire out - should be red?

I need to open up the two front corners of the underbelly anyway to re wire the back up lights to the new fuse block location so will take a better look at the cable runs. I may leave it open in case I want to run some of the solar wiring through there. I remember a good space between the black and gray tank, but I need to see if they left a good opening to go through.

Then I found another puzzle on the battery bus bar.

Red top wire(left) from battery. Red just below I believe runs to the disconnect switch. Now the two heavy black wires on the right side run into the belly too, but are not powered off the battery. I need to trace the white wire (top left) so see where it came from. It may have a stripe on it. Seems strange to have the skinny wire up top and the two heavy black wires below with a circuit breaker in between. Nothing in my manual about this either.

Then below this

Big red wire on left is from buss bar above. The two heavy black wire from positive buss bar above are on the right going into the belly. For the life of me I cant remember seeing them inside the belly. Heavy black wire center is from battery to ground lug. This will all get cleaned up when I put in the negative buss bar to the left of this location.

Tomorrow finish wiring the reverse lights back in, I am hoping to just switch wire runs. I also need to re-run the CPAP power plugs back in.

Then I plan to cut a template of the clean area left over for the solar components and do a dry fit in the house. I also hope to move all the heating ducts out of the way to get to the back of the distribution panel. Maybe I can find where some of the heavy black/red wiring is going.

Any tips on making getting in and out of the pass through. The saddle boxes makes it very uncomfortable. I have som old matress foam - maybe Ill bulid a block to fill the space and cover the door edges.

[Retgw2]

Keith, Yoda

This is the Schematic to my positive bus bar / circuit breaker setup to the best of my research. It looks the same as yours and hopefully answers your questions.

OEM 12volt Wire Diagram v2.pdf

Good Luck, Brian

[gbkims]

Then I found another puzzle on the battery bus bar.
Red top wire(left) from battery. Red just below I believe runs to the disconnect switch. Now the two heavy black wires on the right side run into the belly too, but are not powered off the battery. I need to trace the white wire (top left) so see where it came from. It may have a stripe on it. Seems strange to have the skinny wire up top and the two heavy black wires below with a circuit breaker in between. Nothing in my manual about this either.

Then below this
Big red wire on left is from buss bar above. The two heavy black wire from positive buss bar above are on the right going into the belly. For the life of me I cant remember seeing them inside the belly. Heavy black wire center is from battery to ground lug. This will all get cleaned up when I put in the negative buss bar to the left of this location..

Looks like Retgw2 has the wires traced out.

The color of wires we're used to for automotive, Red +, Black(Neg) from the battery seem to end at the disconnect switch, busbar, and trailer frame.
After that GD follows house AC wiring for the 12VDC with White = Negative and Black = Hot.
Makes my head hurt following their wiring colors.

One of the 6 Awg Black comes from the disconnect switch, then at the CB another 6 Awg runs back to the DC/Breaker panel.
OEM DC w 4 F.C. CBs- Electric Legs.pdf

[Yoda]

Keith, Yoda

This is the Schematic to my positive bus bar / circuit breaker setup to the best of my research. It looks the same as yours and hopefully answers your questions.

OEM 12volt Wire Diagram v2.pdf

Good Luck, Brian

Brian
Thanks so much I will verify this in the am, but it jogs my memory based on my belly pictures and makes sense, except for the wire colors. I cant believe GD switched the 12v colors to AC color coding. Grand Design if you read this; for 12V systems red is + and black is - in 12V wiring so your engineers know. Don't mix AC 120V colors with the 12V standard. Bad things can happen if folks get confused as I was. No wonder my brain hurt today on this puzzle Gene - they changes the rules mid game. Now that I think about it the last connection on the bus bar is reversed - black (power in) should be at the top and power out to the slide controller should be at the bottom as the rest of the connections are. Are the auto resetting circuit breakers one way? I might reverse the wiring to be consistent. I also found a post from Howard howson that verified the same situation on the bus bar and disconnect switch and slide controller power.

Brian - Your probably very correct. Puzzling though - It appears the battery will still charge with the disconnect off, which does not happen on my rig from what I remember, or others based on posts. You gave me a mystery to follow. I will confirm what you have for my 220RK. Something more fun that pulling coroplast. I wanted to clean this area up anyway. That way folks have a pattern to follow on what GD did.

gbkims
Gene
Thanks so much for the second diagram. When I get the heater tubes moved Ill take a hard look there too. Only difference I see is my WFCO is hard wired, not on a plug. I know you sent me other wiring diagrams, but I cant find them tonight - Tomorrow is another day and my mind will be sharper on searching.

Brian/Gene you made my night. I lost a few more brain cells, but this is starting to make sense. I went back through my other threads and looked at where the wires ran, and where I zip tied them up - thank you so much.

Now where did I put the label maker - need to label the wires as I find out where they go and what they do. In moving the fuse block I miss labeled a few, or lets say I did not put enough information on the tags - must have been my AAADD

Thanks again - cold ones are on me.
Keith

[Cate&Rob]

Great "team effort" on sorting through the original wiring. I have nothing new to add, but concur with what has been described and documented so far. By the time I caught up to this discussion, everything that I was going to mention was already covered . This is the way this forum is supposed to work!

Rob

[gbkims]

Brian
Thanks so much I will verify this in the am, but it jogs my memory based on my belly pictures and makes sense, except for the wire colors. I cant believe GD switched the 12v colors to AC color coding. Grand Design if you read this; for 12V systems red is + and black is - in 12V wiring so your engineers know. Don't mix AC 120V colors with the 12V standard. Bad things can happen if folks get confused as I was. No wonder my brain hurt today on this puzzle Gene - they changes the rules mid game. Now that I think about it the last connection on the bus bar is reversed - black (power in) should be at the top and power out to the slide controller should be at the bottom as the rest of the connections are. Are the auto resetting circuit breakers one way? I might reverse the wiring to be consistent. I also found a post from Howard howson that verified the same situation on the bus bar and disconnect switch and slide controller power....

Thanks again - cold ones are on me.
Keith

Keith,
Don't change the last CB. It's just acting as a connection point for those 2 Black wires from the disconnect switch.
The slide controller is on the correct side.of the CB, it just gets power when the passthru switch is On.

For the automotive shortstop CBs, the general wiring standard appears to be, wire the power Source to the Gold/Batt stud, wire the Load to the Silver/Aux stud.
I couldn't find the standard that says that, but seems to be the accepted method
A cutaway of one shows the Gold stud connects to the bimetallic strip that flexes open on a short, and the silver stud connects to the fixed contact of the CB.


As far as GD's wire color choices, it might be they have taken some of the color codes from NFPA 70 (NEC), NFPA 79 Industrial Machinery and UL 508A Industrial Panels.

UL 508A - Industrial Control Panels
66.9.1 The following color coding shall be employed throughout the panel:
a) Black – all ungrounded control circuit conductors operating at the supply voltage.
b) Red – ungrounded ac control circuits operating at a voltage less than the supply voltage.
c) Blue – ungrounded dc control circuits.
d) Yellow or orange – ungrounded control circuits or other wiring, such as for cabinet lighting, that remain energized when the main disconnect is in the off position.
e) White or gray or three white stripes on other than green, blue, orange or yellow – grounded ac current-carrying control circuit conductor regardless of voltage.
f) White with blue stripe – grounded dc current-carrying control circuit conductor.
g) White with yellow stripe or white with orange stripe – grounded ac control circuit current carrying conductor that remains energized when main disconnect switch is in the ²off² position.

[Yoda]

Keith,
Don't change the last CB. It's just acting as a connection point for those 2 Black wires from the disconnect switch.
The slide controller is on the correct side.of the CB, it just gets power when the passthru switch is On.

For the automotive shortstop CBs, the general wiring standard appears to be, wire the power Source to the Gold/Batt stud, wire the Load to the Silver/Aux stud.
I couldn't find the standard that says that, but seems to be the accepted method
A cutaway of one shows the Gold stud connects to the bimetallic strip that flexes open on a short, and the silver stud connects to the fixed contact of the CB.


As far as GD's wire color choices, it might be they have taken some of the color codes from NFPA 70 (NEC), NFPA 79 Industrial Machinery and UL 508A Industrial Panels.

UL 508A - Industrial Control Panels
66.9.1 The following color coding shall be employed throughout the panel:
a) Black – all ungrounded control circuit conductors operating at the supply voltage.
b) Red – ungrounded ac control circuits operating at a voltage less than the supply voltage.
c) Blue – ungrounded dc control circuits.
d) Yellow or orange – ungrounded control circuits or other wiring, such as for cabinet lighting, that remain energized when the main disconnect is in the off position.
e) White or gray or three white stripes on other than green, blue, orange or yellow – grounded ac current-carrying control circuit conductor regardless of voltage.
f) White with blue stripe – grounded dc current-carrying control circuit conductor.
g) White with yellow stripe or white with orange stripe – grounded ac control circuit current carrying conductor that remains energized when main disconnect switch is in the ²off² position.

Thanks Gene
Interesting wire coding information. Not what I learned in my electronics classes - but back then who needed codes (not really). I remember a test on wiring colors in AC and DC circuits along with proper sizing and other things in HS. Everything was soldered back then. Good thing Radio Shack was around. I remember wearing out several soldering tips. Also a lot of class talk on what company (all us) made the best solder. Inhaled a lot of fumes too

I may leave everything alone in the off chance I change rigs, I can put it back to stock. Letting it warm up a bit, then my 40 year old multi meter comes out and I am going to do a bit of wire tracing. I need to be sure of whats going on. I am also going to measure the run lengths of the 6awg 12V power feed to the distribution panel - I am wondering if it is the correct gauge. However it does work, so I might leave that alone too. I do plan to wrap some red electrical tape on the ends to indicate it is hot. I also found my label maker so if the tape will stick to the insulation I will be labeling them.

Thanks everyone
Keith