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  • “Drop in” lifepo4 100Ah battery?

    I’m skeptical when I hear about a “drop in” Li fe p04 battery and need some more experienced input pls. I have the OEM WFCO 8955PEC 55 pwr distro Ctr on my GD 2250RK and currently running two Duracell Ultra BCI 24M AGM 78Ah batts. What would be the downsides to dropping in a (for example only) single Battle Born 12v 100Ah battery, without changing anything else, and….what would be the upside, if any? I’m thinking of preparing for solar but want to go one step at a time (ref: YouTube video on channel “Finding Our Someday” entitled “Don’t waste money, four stages of solar”). All inputs appreciated!
    Dave and Sue
    2020 GD 2250RK
    2019 F-150 XLT, 5.0, 4WD, SB
    Curt 17500 WDH, 3.55
    GY Endurance, Dexter EZ Flex
    SCPO(SW) USN, (Ret), HP: Tampa Bay ⚓️🇺🇸

  • #2
    Dave,

    Having a lithium capable charging strategy would be ideal since lithium requires different voltages to charge the battery to its full potential. Lithium also requires only two charge modes rather than the three found in a lead acid charger. But most importantly, the lithium battery is top balanced where this occurs in the last stage of charging and at higher voltage than lead acid. So as a result, at least one component of your system must on occasion fully charge the lithium battery to balance its cells. Solar does not always operate to full potential and a DCDC charger from the TV could work as long as its in use long enough. The best option is a lithium capable converter at a minimum that will quickly and efficiently charge your lithium battery IMO.

    There is no upside in not having a dedicated lithium charger except short term savings with a penalty in lower battery longevity.

    Jim
    Last edited by Guest; 09-25-2022, 01:47 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Design your end system and work back from there and piece together as you go, trust me I have made one or 2 mistakes.

      Brian
      Brian & Michelle
      2018 Reflection 29RS
      2022 Chevy 3500HD

      Comment


      • #4
        IMO.....and you know what they say about those....
        I would drop in the 100ah LiFePO4 battery first.....then a lithium capable charger second....then worry about how many watts of solar you want to pony up for.
        If you boondock a lot...cover the roof with them. If you don't boondock....save your money for the CG fees.
        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
        Not to brag or anything about my finances, but my bank calls me about every day to tell me my balance is OUTSTANDING!

        Comment


        • #5
          If you boondock, buy a generator. The most important accessory.

          Jim

          Comment


          • #6
            Two 78 aH AGM batteries will provide about 94 AH of useable power if discharged 60% of their capacity. They weigh approximately 55.1 pounds for a total of 110.2 pounds.
            One 100aH LiFePO4 battery will yield approximately 99-100 aH of power and weigh about 29 pounds.

            So you'd be able to get about 6 more amp hours of power and save 81 pounds. The typical LifePO4 100 aH battery will be about the same size as a group 27 battery, so you'd need a little larger battery box if yours will only fit a group 24.

            As for the converter. The WFCO 8955PEC can be easily modified in 10-15 minutes by purchasing a WFCO 8955-AD-MBA board to replace the main board in your power center. The change Installs easily with only two screws, three AC wires, and two DC wires. The AD stands for Auto Detect, and can automatically determine whether you're connected to a lead acid (AGM) battery or lithium. Here's a link to the AD board on Amazon:

            https://www.amazon.com/WFCO-WF-8955-...19080606&psc=1

            According to WFCO, the AD board can be installed in any 8955 power center. I have not done this change myself, so I have no experience doing so.

            Jim
            Last edited by TucsonJim; 09-26-2022, 09:21 PM.
            Jim and Ginnie
            2024 Solitude 310GK
            GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
            GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
              Two 78 aH AGM batteries will provide about 94 AH of useable power if discharged 60% of their capacity. They weigh approximately 55.1 pounds for a total of 110.2 pounds.
              On 100aH LiFePO4 battery will yield approximately 99-100 aH of power and weigh about 29 pounds.

              So you'd be able to get about 6 more amp hours of power and save 81 pounds. The typical LifePO4 100 aH battery will be about the same size as a group 27 battery, so you'd need a little larger battery box if yours will only fit a group 24.

              As for the converter. The WFCO 8955PEC can be easily modified in 10-15 minutes by purchasing a WFCO 8955-AD-MBA board to replace the main board in your power center. The change Installs easily with only two screws, three AC wires, and two DC wires. The AD stands for Auto Detect, and can automatically determine whether you're connected to a lead acid (AGM) battery or lithium. Here's a link to the AD board on Amazon:

              https://www.amazon.com/WFCO-WF-8955-...19080606&psc=1

              According to WFCO, the AD board can be installed in any 8955 power center. I have not done this change myself, so I have no experience doing so.

              Jim
              Also, a LiFePO4 battery will give you about 6X more cycles than your AGM battery.
              Allen

              2021 Momentum 21G

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
                If you boondock, buy a generator. The most important accessory.

                Jim
                Tks Jim, I have a Champion 2800 dual fuel as a back up plan.
                Dave and Sue
                2020 GD 2250RK
                2019 F-150 XLT, 5.0, 4WD, SB
                Curt 17500 WDH, 3.55
                GY Endurance, Dexter EZ Flex
                SCPO(SW) USN, (Ret), HP: Tampa Bay ⚓️🇺🇸

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post

                  Also, a LiFePO4 battery will give you about 6X more cycles than your AGM battery.
                  Wow, much thanks!
                  Dave and Sue
                  2020 GD 2250RK
                  2019 F-150 XLT, 5.0, 4WD, SB
                  Curt 17500 WDH, 3.55
                  GY Endurance, Dexter EZ Flex
                  SCPO(SW) USN, (Ret), HP: Tampa Bay ⚓️🇺🇸

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post
                    Two 78 aH AGM batteries will provide about 94 AH of useable power if discharged 60% of their capacity. They weigh approximately 55.1 pounds for a total of 110.2 pounds.
                    On 100aH LiFePO4 battery will yield approximately 99-100 aH of power and weigh about 29 pounds.

                    So you'd be able to get about 6 more amp hours of power and save 81 pounds. The typical LifePO4 100 aH battery will be about the same size as a group 27 battery, so you'd need a little larger battery box if yours will only fit a group 24.

                    As for the converter. The WFCO 8955PEC can be easily modified in 10-15 minutes by purchasing a WFCO 8955-AD-MBA board to replace the main board in your power center. The change Installs easily with only two screws, three AC wires, and two DC wires. The AD stands for Auto Detect, and can automatically determine whether you're connected to a lead acid (AGM) battery or lithium. Here's a link to the AD board on Amazon:

                    https://www.amazon.com/WFCO-WF-8955-...19080606&psc=1

                    According to WFCO, the AD board can be installed in any 8955 power center. I have not done this change myself, so I have no experience doing so.

                    Jim
                    Jim, this was the most concise, complete, and easy to understand response to any question I’ve ever asked on any forum, anywhere. You are a true RV Tech Rock Star. Thanks again.
                    Dave and Sue
                    2020 GD 2250RK
                    2019 F-150 XLT, 5.0, 4WD, SB
                    Curt 17500 WDH, 3.55
                    GY Endurance, Dexter EZ Flex
                    SCPO(SW) USN, (Ret), HP: Tampa Bay ⚓️🇺🇸

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Schiefswret View Post

                      Tks Jim, I have a Champion 2800 dual fuel as a back up plan.
                      Your welcome Dave. A generator is the guarantor of a successful boondocking trip no matter what battery type is used or if the sky is shaded out for solar use. The Lithium battery and compatible converter makes the trip far more enjoyable. I'm not sold on solar where I have a portable model that has yet to be hauled around due to the shaded sites we boondock in. Solar could help for over the road if the new fangled refrigerators are used but then a shaded site will result in more generator use so no gain is obtained in less generator use.

                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

                        Your welcome Dave. A generator is the guarantor of a successful boondocking trip no matter what battery type is used or if the sky is shaded out for solar use. The Lithium battery and compatible converter makes the trip far more enjoyable. I'm not sold on solar where I have a portable model that has yet to be hauled around due to the shaded sites we boondock in. Solar could help for over the road if the new fangled refrigerators are used but then a shaded site will result in more generator use so no gain is obtained in less generator use.

                        Jim
                        I live and camp mostly in the western USA, so shading is not so much of an issue for us. Although I haven't needed a generator in a couple of years, I still carry one in case we need it when boondocking.

                        Jim
                        Jim and Ginnie
                        2024 Solitude 310GK
                        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
                        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TucsonJim View Post

                          I live and camp mostly in the western USA, so shading is not so much of an issue for us. Although I haven't needed a generator in a couple of years, I still carry one in case we need it when boondocking.

                          Jim
                          Jim,

                          I would invest in solar too if we were in AZ. Plenty of sun out there....really like Arizona.

                          Jim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            With the updated converter the charge times for the lithium will be a fraction of those needed for lead acid. Big deal when needing to charge up with a generator. With stock converter, charge times will also be faster, but by how much I don't know.
                            Ottertail, Minnesota
                            2022 Imagine 2500RL VIN 573TE3029N6637046
                            2022 Ford F-150 Lariat, SuperCrew, long box, max tow

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AlexPeterson View Post
                              With the updated converter the charge times for the lithium will be a fraction of those needed for lead acid. Big deal when needing to charge up with a generator. With stock converter, charge times will also be faster, but by how much I don't know.
                              I'm uncertain on this one as well since I had never seen my WFCO unit go into bulk charging on our original group 27 lead acid battery. Never measured over 10 amps from that converter.

                              Jim

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