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Bolt hardness needed for our RV work - Steel verses Stainless Steel

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  • #16
    Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post
    OK, slight tangent here: IMO I don't like the whole system. To me there are 2 major issues with the factory standard way of coroplast as the underlayment.

    First, it sucks. You need to access something in the middle of the trailer, you gotta drop the majority of the underlayment. That's lame. I've seen some older trailers with plastic sectional panels. You just remove the specific panel in the area you want to access. Easy. Why can't RV industry innovation lean toward easier maintenance/repairs?

    Second, I do not like drilling holes in the frames of the trailer. It compromises the structural integrity of the beam. Ther are very specific areas and hole sizes that are allowed in a beam, and the holes for the coroplast are not in those acceptable locations. This is why I welded the shock brackets to the frame of our trailer rather than putting more holes in the bottom of the beam.
    Good tangent
    I looked into the separate plastic panels another brand uses, but folks are having problems losing them when driving (screws pulling through as it flaps in the wind) and they are a custom fit. Now as far as 1/4" holes in a 2" flange every foot or so I am not sure it is a problem. But you do have a valid concern. All of my frame cracks are due to welding to the frame web - done wrong, but non the less welding. A lot of components get bolted to the frame and if done properly (reinforcement) should hold. Now if my repairs go as I hope they will, I will end up with a new 2x2 sub frame. I plan to pre-drill holes in the center of the tube, out of the stress area.

    Unfortunately on the stock situation GD just drilled into the flange where the person placing the coroplast happen to hit. I assume at the factory the frame is upside down and they just lay it out and go to town with the self drilling 1/4" hardware. I doubt there is even a placement plan. On my unit that was all over the place, both on the inside flange and outside flange with a few total misses. An yes this could be problematic if there were a lot of them. My steadyfast has two larger holes on the inside flange about 1.5" apart. I plan to have thees holes filled and the brace welded to the new subframe, or a separate plate to bolt to added

    Now when I put it back up I plan to install in sections just as you suggest. For GD to do that would take time and more components/weight and I am sure it was not worth it to them. If it had not been for my modifications and frame cracks I doubt I would have pulled the coroplast. Besides in most cases dealers just cut it loose and tape it back together - not a good solution but quick.

    Happy Thanksgiving
    Keith
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel, SteadyFast system, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL), B&W 25K OEM Companion

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
      Yoda Keith, I will just drop this here and let you decide if you have not already: https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-M...SETS/300703696

      This may help others. And yes there are now several brands out there. You usually get what you pay for.
      Gee I get to spend more money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and a new tool to boot I had no idea they existed. I wonder if I can just get the 1/4x 20 somewhere? Have you used them by chance? Would it work in a drill press? Wondering on the tap portion feed?

      Keith

      On edit
      Found the singles - the come in all sizes
      https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

      https://www.zoro.com/greenlee-drillt...CABEgIkU_D_BwE

      https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DTAP.../dp/B07ZDS9KDF

      Now to find a video on how to use
      Found one https://www.google.com/search?client...0PEPop-9yAE_26
      Last edited by Yoda; 11-21-2022, 02:17 PM.
      2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel, SteadyFast system, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL), B&W 25K OEM Companion

      Comment


      • #18
        From a machinists point of view and someone who drills and taps holes on a daily basis I would be careful of the drill/tap all in one item. If the part that is being drilled and tapped is not secure with no movement you will have a good possibility of breaking the all in one bit, once the part starts to move a little and you try to move back and steady it is when the bit will break, I am not a fan of these for any application except in really thin metal which does not include the frame flange. I would drill the hole then hand tap if threads were required. Just my .02 and worth the amount you paid for it.

        Brian
        Brian & Michelle
        2018 Reflection 29RS Oct.2017 build date, EMS-HW50C , Lippert Remote
        630 ah battery, Victron Multiplus 2, 800 watts solar, 100/50 SCC
        2015 Chevy 3500HD CC LB Duramax , Reese Elite 18K

        Comment


        • #19
          Jlawles2
          For the heck of it I got two of the Greenlee ones coming (good ratings) to try. Had a 20% off coupon. If they don't work so be it. I watched a video on how to use a drill press with them. If not I will drill the pilot hole with the press and finish up with the tap. Should make quick work on the cross braces. Now the frame may be different, especially under the suspension where the clearance is tight.

          However I also saw a neat right angle 1/4 hex chuck drill head - looked something like this one https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-M...XTMF/316938970 Anyone have one?
          Keith
          2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel, SteadyFast system, Star White 2022 F350 King Ranch CC Long bed (HAL), B&W 25K OEM Companion

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by acoleman43 View Post
            OK, slight tangent here: IMO I don't like the whole system. To me there are 2 major issues with the factory standard way of coroplast as the underlayment.

            First, it sucks. You need to access something in the middle of the trailer, you gotta drop the majority of the underlayment. That's lame. I've seen some older trailers with plastic sectional panels. You just remove the specific panel in the area you want to access. Easy. Why can't RV industry innovation lean toward easier maintenance/repairs?

            Second, I do not like drilling holes in the frames of the trailer. It compromises the structural integrity of the beam. Ther are very specific areas and hole sizes that are allowed in a beam, and the holes for the coroplast are not in those acceptable locations. This is why I welded the shock brackets to the frame of our trailer rather than putting more holes in the bottom of the beam.
            Your spot on where the only thing I can think of that makes this sort of OK is that the frame does not flex all that much. Drilling a beam in the flange is generally not acceptable. A single seam in the middle of the rig would make rolling the coroplast back on one end be it from the middle or fore and aft where it can easily be rolled back in place with one end attached.

            Jim
            2017 Imagine 2600RB
            2015 GMC Sierra 4x4

            Comment


            • #21
              Yoda The tap will essentially self-feed in a drill press with little follow pressure. Hand tapping has less risk of breaking. Greenlee is a good old brand.
              Ted
              2021 Reflection 310RLS
              2020 F350 PS,CC,LB,SRW

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

                Agree screw material properties are important, but if the pilot portion of the screw does not drill completely through the material, the thread will catch and try to control the rate of the pilot drill. Most of the time this will result in the screw breaking. The other issue if the pilot portion does not extend through the material before the threaded section is binding due to the cuttings not having a path to escape which will also result in breakage.

                Jim
                The self drilling type screws typically have the least pull out strength when compared to regular sheet metal or thread cutting (machine thread) type screws. They are a compromise for speed for sure. I especially dislike them when used for things like plastic fenders into the sides of trailers.
                2021 Reflection 337RLS, 2021 Silverado 3500HD 6.6 gas. Nellie the wonder boxer

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Yoda View Post
                  Jlawles2
                  For the heck of it I got two of the Greenlee ones coming (good ratings) to try. Had a 20% off coupon. If they don't work so be it. I watched a video on how to use a drill press with them. If not I will drill the pilot hole with the press and finish up with the tap. Should make quick work on the cross braces. Now the frame may be different, especially under the suspension where the clearance is tight.

                  However I also saw a neat right angle 1/4 hex chuck drill head - looked something like this one https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-M...XTMF/316938970 Anyone have one?
                  Keith
                  Be careful with those right angle adapters. The torque is transferred only when the head is held still. I suggest saving the over suspension ones for last. Why not have there welding guy put the tubing next to the flange of the frame or offset heavily toward the center to give you more clearance. This will also make it easier to remove.
                  Joseph
                  Tow
                  Vehicle: 2018 GMC K2500 Denali Diesel
                  Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                  South of Houston Texas

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Yoda View Post

                    Good tangent
                    I looked into the separate plastic panels another brand uses, but folks are having problems losing them when driving (screws pulling through as it flaps in the wind) and they are a custom fit. Now as far as 1/4" holes in a 2" flange every foot or so I am not sure it is a problem. But you do have a valid concern. All of my frame cracks are due to welding to the frame web - done wrong, but non the less welding. A lot of components get bolted to the frame and if done properly (reinforcement) should hold. Now if my repairs go as I hope they will, I will end up with a new 2x2 sub frame. I plan to pre-drill holes in the center of the tube, out of the stress area.

                    Unfortunately on the stock situation GD just drilled into the flange where the person placing the coroplast happen to hit. I assume at the factory the frame is upside down and they just lay it out and go to town with the self drilling 1/4" hardware. I doubt there is even a placement plan. On my unit that was all over the place, both on the inside flange and outside flange with a few total misses. An yes this could be problematic if there were a lot of them. My steadyfast has two larger holes on the inside flange about 1.5" apart. I plan to have thees holes filled and the brace welded to the new subframe, or a separate plate to bolt to added

                    Now when I put it back up I plan to install in sections just as you suggest. For GD to do that would take time and more components/weight and I am sure it was not worth it to them. If it had not been for my modifications and frame cracks I doubt I would have pulled the coroplast. Besides in most cases dealers just cut it loose and tape it back together - not a good solution but quick.

                    Happy Thanksgiving
                    Keith
                    Wow, if all your cracks were at the welds, I'm thinking the frame was flexing a lot (and the welds weren't). Probably a good think you're stiffening the frame......now you got me thinking :(
                    Momentum 21G

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Yoda View Post
                      Jlawles2
                      For the heck of it I got two of the Greenlee ones coming (good ratings) to try. Had a 20% off coupon. If they don't work so be it. I watched a video on how to use a drill press with them. If not I will drill the pilot hole with the press and finish up with the tap. Should make quick work on the cross braces. Now the frame may be different, especially under the suspension where the clearance is tight.

                      However I also saw a neat right angle 1/4 hex chuck drill head - looked something like this one https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-M...XTMF/316938970 Anyone have one?
                      Keith
                      Hi Keith,

                      Makita makes an 18V close clearance drill that works well. Just helping to add to your tool collection .

                      Rob

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

                        Hi Keith,

                        Makita makes an 18V close clearance drill that works well. Just helping to add to your tool collection .

                        Rob

                        Click image for larger version

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Views:	65
Size:	14.4 KB
ID:	100050
                        You definitely need one of those Keith.
                        2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                        2021 Reflection 303RLS, Haloview RD7, Strong-arms, Micro-Air364
                        .........It's weird being the same age as old people.....

                        Comment

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