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**ncitro** · 10-30-2020, 08:40 PM

Brian S Unfortunately sounds like a classic case of payload not matching trailer capacity. That said 120 pounds over is not super overloaded, I am surprised it handled so badly for only being that little bit over. Would be good to know what your actual tongue weight is, most sway comes from too little or not enough tongue weight, not the rig being overweight. What is your GVWR of the trailer? I see your trailer weight is estimated at 7,500, I am assuming you are not over that? You also do not state which trailer you have, and thus I do not know the length. Sometimes on some of the longer trailers with the shorter F150 wheelbase sway becomes an issue. Unfortunately for the longer trailers you are either looking at a better hitch (propride or hensley) or a bigger truck with a longer wheelbase (I would assume this route since you are overweight anyway).

I feel for you, but know you will be in good company here. There are many in the "two truck club" and even a few in the more exclusive "three truck club" lol.

**ThePowells** · 10-31-2020, 06:33 AM

Brian, welcome!!
Another thought would be to make sure that your tires are of the proper load range and inflated. Many are mounted and roll out with a much lower air pressure to improve every day handling and comfort but need to have the pressure adjusted up to handle heavier towing.

**Jkwilson** · 10-31-2020, 08:38 AM

A lot of people, including myself, have hauled a lot more trailer than you have with a similar truck without issue, so I suspect something is amiss.

1685 payload and you scaled at 1805. Subtract 400 for passengers, 100 for the hitch and 50 for the cover says you have 1255 pounds of tongue weight with 6460 on the trailer axles. That means your trailer weighs 7715 loaded.

Is your hitch designed for 1255lb tongue weight?

**Cate&Rob** · 10-31-2020, 08:50 AM

Brian S

The tire upgrade advice by JimGuest on the other related thread, https://gdrvowners.com/towing-and-hi...h-with-an-f150, is a good caution to consider if you are thinking of upgrading to LT (light truck) tires. Make sure that your wheels are appropriate for the associated increase in pressure. Your 1685 payload indicates that your truck is probably equipped with passenger car tires running at maybe 35 psi. As a reference, my 2014 HDPP came with load range E tires (max pressure 80 psi) and the label pressure specs are 55 psi front and 60 psi rear. Later versions of the HDPP with the aluminum body come with load range C tires (max pressure 65 psi) but because the truck is lighter, payload is upwards of 2500 lbs.

BTW, nothing that you upgrade in suspension or tires will "officially" change the payload of your truck as noted on the tire label on the door, but can increase towing stability if you are close to your limits.

Rob

**Guest** · 10-31-2020, 09:38 AM

Brian S I'm struggling with your numbers where I will see if I can get to my manuals with CAT scale readings from my Imagine. From what I recall, I was at 940lbs tongue weight with full water and loaded for a trip. My half ton payload is 1740lbs so we're not far apart.

From your other post it looks like you may be done camping for the season. It would be helpful though to have the following if at all possible.

1) CAT scale readings of your TV steer axle and rear axle and combined weight of the trailer axles, with WDH connected and ready for a trip
2) CAT scale readings of your trailer off the truck to provide the tongue weight and combined weight of both trailer axles.
3) Brand and rating of your WDH.
4) A side picture of your truck and trailer, connected and ready for a trip.

Here are the measurements from my truck with my 2017 2600RB fully loaded and with full water as a worse case example. My truck and trailer for the most part are fully loaded.

Trailer GVW 6995 this is the older Imagine with a lower GVW.

CAT Results:

Trailer Alone:
Tongue weight - 940lbs
Weight on both axles (combined) - 5820
Gross weight trailer - 6760

Trailer connected to truck with WDH
Steer Axle - 3240
Drive Axle - 3520
Trailer axles combined - 5940
Gross combined - 12700
Front and Rear load (axle) limits - 3950

Truck GVWR 7200
Payload 1740

Since this time I have installed Air Lift air bags and have adjusted the truck to sit at its unloaded stance while connected to the trailer so I will need to re-measure where I believe more weight is now on the steer axle. This results in a significant improvement to handling. I'll provide detail next in how I set this up.

**Guest** · 10-31-2020, 02:32 PM

What has worked well for my heavily loaded half ton.

1) Equalizer 10K WDH. Would recommend a 12K hitch if doing this today, but 10K works.
2) Installed Michelin LTX E rated tires . Towing: 45psi front 50 psi rear. Non-Towing 40psi
3) Setting up the hitch height initially with 30psi in the airbags and for a level or slightly nose down trailer. 6 washers used in the hitch.
4) Adjust the bars to achieve zero lift on the front end of the truck. This worked out to be parallel to the trailer frame on my unit. You can also add some air to the bags if the bars cannot provide the needed lift.

This setting will result in the truck sitting mostly in its unloaded stance while being connected to the imagine. Working to maintain zero lift on the front end of the TV will result in the vehicle being well planted. Especially on lighter half tons. No jounce bumper contact will be encountered where truck suck is mostly gone.
Target towing speed - 63 mph and 60 mph in higher side winds.

I should also add that another member has recently provided feedback on the use of sumo springs on his TV with excellent results. This would be a much less costly solution though the LT tires would still help while towing but your unloaded ride quality will be somewhat degraded.

Jim

**Schiefswret** · 10-31-2020, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Brian S View Post

Moderator note--this post was originally in a different thread. Moved here to it's own post. -Howard

Jdeimund, I am no expert and don't own a fifth wheel, but I do own a similar truck to yours. I have a 2017 F-150 short box with the 5.0l V8. I too am rated for 9,000 lb towing. My problem is the GVRW of the truck is 7,000 lbs. The payload limit is 1685 lbs. We got our trailer in late September and are now faced with a truck upgrade! I towed on a short trip last week and it was horrible! Everyone said the rig was 1/2 ton towable, but they lied. lol My UVW is 6124 lbs and the Tongue weight is 615 dry. Add two tanks of propane, and a battery right off the top. Add in what I have in the passthru and I have no doubt that we are over 1,000 lb. tongue weight. I did all the math and thought we would be ok. I scaled everything at the Cat Scale and found I was over my payload. Rear GVAW was 20 pounds over and GVWR was 120 pounds over. No water in our fresh tank and very little in the truck. One thing i did not allow for in the calculations was our tonneau cover. Wife and I are 400 lbs combined.
I felt like I was driving on ball bearings and my WD hitch was properly set up. I would not take this set-up on the road again and there is certainly no room for grand babies or anything else. It is a case of the tail wagging the dog! The trailer is just too heavy for the truck!
Just be careful and hopefully people on here will give you the straight goods.
Your payload is higher, but that pin weight would scare the crap out of me.

Cat Scale ticket said I was 6460 lbs. on trailer axles and GCWR was 13,500lbs. I do not know the actual tongue weight. I am estimating the whole trailer at around 7,500 lbs loaded. For some reason, the numbers just don't add up! To say I am 120 lbs over on the GVWR, is because I added up the steer axle (3300) plus drive axle (3820) to get the 7,120. Anyone out there able to clarify this for me? Thanks

Brian, FWIW: ( my TV and RV info are at left). My most recent Cat scale, 10/9/20, here is my results. Steer axle 3160; 290lbs under TV sticker, Drive axle 3860, 60lbs over TV sticker. Trailer axle 6340, 660lbs under RV GVWR. Gross Wt at Cat, 13360, 740 below TV GCWR. I’ve been towing at or very close to these figures for about 14 months now with no issues big enough to complain about. My only observation is that it appears that your rig looks like it’s about 40 lbs, not 120 lbs over the GVWR, if that is 7000. Since you have a WDH and I’ll presume it’s set up properly, I wish I could make some suggestions but unfortunately I can not. Best of luck identifying your issue and solution.

**Guest** · 10-31-2020, 06:08 PM

Brian S With a 520lb difference between your rear axle and front axle, at a minimum you will need to crank in more bar on your WDH and adjust for a level trailer. You did not state which hitch you are using and its rating.

The new Imagine has a GVW of 500lbs over my older unit where we are not that far apart based on your trailer axle loading and truck axle loads.... with the exception of your excessive loading on your rear axle. This tells us your bars need cranked up. If we take your estimate of 7500lb and subtract the CAT scale confirmed mass on the rear axles, this leaves 1040lb tongue weight. Again not far from my rig but still a mystery that your carrying this much mass on empty tanks.
With my Imagine weighing in at 6760 with full water, it may also be good in your case to revisit your loading and either re-distribute your load or to lose some items.

Jim

**Calbar** · 10-31-2020, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

Brian S With a 520lb difference between your rear axle and front axle, at a minimum you will need to crank in more bar on your WDH and adjust for a level trailer. You did not state which hitch you are using and its rating.

The new Imagine has a GVW of 500lbs over my older unit where we are not that far apart based on your trailer axle loading and truck axle loads.... with the exception of your excessive loading on your rear axle. This tells us your bars need cranked up. If we take your estimate of 7500lb and subtract the CAT scale confirmed mass on the rear axles, this leaves 1040lb tongue weight. Again not far from my rig but still a mystery that your carrying this much mass on empty tanks.
With my Imagine weighing in at 6760 with full water, it may also be good in your case to revisit your loading and either re-distribute your load or to lose some items.

Jim

Jim the front and rear axles don't need to be the same weight. Mine never are and I don't have the issues ever that the OP has. Per the Ford owners manual he needs to setup his WDH as follows:
1. Measure front fender height without the trailer.
2. Measure front fender height with trailer and no WDH.
3. Tighten the WDH hitch to bring front fender height 1/2 way between the first 2 measurements.

I personally bring my front fender height back to 1. Gives better steering control as you bring the weight on the front axle back to optimal prior to hooking up the trailer and you don't get the lite steering feel. To fine tune mine I measure axle weights without the trailer and then fine tune the WDH to bring the front axle back to the unhitched weight. Best steering control that way.

Rob

**Cate&Rob** · 10-31-2020, 09:02 PM

The suggestion that bad things happen if the weight being carried is a few hundred pounds over label numbers is just not realistic. I can assure you that these trucks are tested to a “safety margin” well beyond what it states on the label. Mis-adjusted weight distribution that unloads the front axle is the most likely cause of the instability described.

Rob

**Guest** · 10-31-2020, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Calbar View Post

Jim the front and rear axles don't need to be the same weight. Mine never are and I don't have the issues ever that the OP has. Per the Ford owners manual he needs to setup his WDH as follows:
1. Measure front fender height without the trailer.
2. Measure front fender height with trailer and no WDH.
3. Tighten the WDH hitch to bring front fender height 1/2 way between the first 2 measurements.

I personally bring my front fender height back to 1. Gives better steering control as you bring the weight on the front axle back to optimal prior to hooking up the trailer and you don't get the lite steering feel. To fine tune mine I measure axle weights without the trailer and then fine tune the WDH to bring the front axle back to the unhitched weight. Best steering control that way.

Rob

Rob,

He is overweight on his rear axle and would benefit by transferring more weight to the front end. I agree to adjust to zero front end lift.

Jim

**Calbar** · 11-01-2020, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

Rob,

He is overweight on his rear axle and would benefit by transferring more weight to the front end. I agree to adjust to zero front end lift.

Jim

Agreed that is what it seems like but he needs to check his unloaded weights to determine how much he needs to adjust to fine tune. I just wanted to make sure that the OP knew that front and rear axle weights do not need to be identical and inform him of the process per Ford and what the WDH manufacturers recommend in some cases. He may have trouble getting all the weight back to the front axle and need to follow what Ford states in the owners manual. I have heard that the Ford hitch is the weak link in trying to distribute weight to the front but this is only internet info and I don't have any first hand knowledge of this.

My 2006 GMC Sierra had a weak hitch that caused me problems. When I went with a better after market hitch and was able to set the WDH properly it was stable to tow with. Underpowered but stable.

Rob

**Guest** · 11-01-2020, 09:19 AM

Calbar

Rob,

It looks like both you and I are not following the recommended Ford/Equalizer adjustment method based on front fender delta and this has resulted in the best handling while being at or near the hitch limit. This would be 1200 lbs on a class IV. Having stated that some after market hitches/receivers will have a max limit of 1400 lbs where many factory hitches today are now matching this limit as payloads are increasing. This does not apply to the OPs truck with a 1685 payload limit however. Installing an aftermarket hitch with higher limits does not increase the payload limits of the truck and can put undo strain on both the truck and trailer frames. He should consider a 12K/1200 lb equalizer or equivalent and no more based on his limits.

You'll notice before my air bag install, I was at a 280 lb delta between the front and rear of my truck. Since my 1K bars could not bring my front end down to zero lift, I added the bags which have achieved the goal to not only bring the front end down to zero lift but to also increase rear body height to allow for increased suspension travel as to avoid jounce bumper contact. I've not been back to the CAT scale but would bet I am very close to equal loading on both the front and rear end. The OP should adjust to also do the same and he will find that his front and rear weights will be converging. It just happens to work out this way. If this is not possible, I would recommend the airbags to adjust both loading and pitch of the truck while adjusting the bars to help transfer mass.

All manufactures have raised power and torque with DI so I'm not following where this has any relevance to the OPs issue.

An interesting video is setting up air bags with a WDH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CAKb18ZXs

Jim

**Calbar** · 11-01-2020, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

Calbar

Rob,

It looks like both you and I are not following the recommended Ford/Equalizer adjustment method based on front fender delta and this has resulted in the best handling while being at or near the hitch limit. This would be 1200 lbs on a class IV. Having stated that some after market hitches/receivers will have a max limit of 1400 lbs where many factory hitches today are now matching this limit as payloads are increasing. This does not apply to the OPs truck with a 1685 payload limit however. Installing an aftermarket hitch with higher limits does not increase the payload limits of the truck and can put undo strain on both the truck and trailer frames. He should consider a 12K/1200 lb equalizer or equivalent and no more based on his limits.

You'll notice before my air bag install, I was at a 280 lb delta between the front and rear of my truck. Since my 1K bars could not bring my front end down to zero lift, I added the bags which have achieved the goal to not only bring the front end down to zero lift but to also increase rear body height to allow for increased suspension travel as to avoid jounce bumper contact. I've not been back to the CAT scale but would bet I am very close to equal loading on both the front and rear end. The OP should adjust to also do the same and he will find that his front and rear weights will be converging. It just happens to work out this way. If this is not possible, I would recommend the airbags to adjust both loading and pitch of the truck while adjusting the bars to help transfer mass.

All manufactures have raised power and torque with DI so I'm not following where this has any relevance to the OPs issue.

An interesting video is setting up air bags with a WDH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CAKb18ZXs

Jim

Jim,

I agree that an after market reciever will not increase the ops payload at all but it may allow him to transfer more weight to the front if he has trouble with that. That was the issue that I had on my Sierra. The 12K equalizer may also help but if the hitch flexes it may not allow enough to be transferred. Glad you have a setup that works for you with the air bags and that may also work for the Op. I have never had to use airbags as I have always been able to get the front end loading back to pre-trailer hook up without them so have no experience using them. Just have read that they may level but don't transfer any weight.

The comment about under power 2006 Sierra was just a tongue in cheek comment about the truck and not meant in anyway to address the OPs issue.

Rob

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Towing Problem--Scary Experience (need help)

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