On many setups, it is not possible to tow level with good bed clearance. Trucks have gotten taller. The tandem axle on the trailer can handle being unlevel to degree.

Your pin box has some adjustment to help as well.

Zing
Welcome to our owners technical forum.

Your math is correct. The overhang of a 150 Series Reflection is at 61" from the ground when the trailer is level. The distance between the truck bed and the overhang can be adjusted with the hitch and the pinbox, but the critical measurement is between the trailer overhang and the bed rails (& top of tailgate). Without making changes to the trailer suspension, you have to get the bed rails of the truck down to 55" to create a 6" clearance to the overhand at 61". Every inch that you are above 55" will either lift the front of the trailer above level or reduce the clearance between trailer and truck.

The back of the truck will likely drop 2" to 3" with the weight of the trailer, but you still have to find another couple of inches. Many just tow with the front of the trailer high, some raise the trailer suspension (increase the 61" number to maybe 63") and some reduce the ride height of the rear truck suspension.

As mentioned earlier, modern trucks are getting taller but 5th wheel overhang has not been adjusted accordingly. This is the flip side of the oft quoted "you can't have too big a truck" in that the heavier and taller the rear suspension of the truck, the more difficult it is to tow a small 5th wheel level with adequate trailer to truck clearance.

Rob

At the risk of going OT, this seems like an incredible area of opportunity for a truck manufacturer. Why doesn't one of the "Big Three" make a heavy-duty truck with an on-the-fly adjustable suspension that will modify ride-height depending on the task required? Toss in auto-leveling (Dodge has this in their 1/4 ton trucks?) and I might even be tempted to look at one, even though I really like my '17 SuperDuty.

I’m curious about your truck. My SRW F250 with 18” tires is 56” high at the tailgate sitting on the factory suspension empty and the bed rails 19-3/4” above the bed floor. I’m towing a few inches nose high to be comfortable with the rail clearance. I wasn’t aware the trucks had gotten even taller.

howson Jkwilson
Howard & John . . . interesting discussion.

I thought most trucks (with stock suspension) were in the 57" range for empty tailgate height. (I am surprised at the OP measurement of 60"). I took the attached picture when My F150 just happened to be parked tail-to-tail with a Ram 3500 Dually (which I think was stock). Tailgate height starts out the same. I know that my half ton (HDPP suspension) compresses about 2" with a 2000 lb pin weight. I doubt that a one ton dually would compress that much . . . but, maybe the springs are really soft at the top end ? Reflection 150 Series with loaded pin weights in the 1800 lb range will compress the rear of the truck even less.

The idea of adjustable ride height is intriguing. The problem is that, although towing 5th wheel RVs is important to us, it is a very small part of the truck business. Goose neck cargo trailers are built with more clearance. The problem for the RV manufacturers is that increasing overhang clearance will reduce headroom in the front of the RV to stay within legal overall height.

Airbags could be used in the rear in a "reverse" application with shorter ride height springs for towing and then trim the ride height back up with the air bags for empty. Adjusting the front ride height would get more complicated for most trucks.

Rob

Howard,

HD trucks (actually all trucks with live axles) need to move to an air suspension on the rear axle IMO. An air ride system could be used for ride height adjustment and could also be used to measure pin weight and load on the rear axle. All we can do today is to add an airbag system which also provides a significant improvement in ride quality. At least it did on my truck.

Jim

Just measured a 2021 "Limited" at the dealership with 20 inch tires. Tailgate height was 58.5 in. The "Platinum" with 20 inch tires was 59 inches. Just checked my brothers 2016 F250. He still has the Reese hitch in the bed and his is 54 inches. Must be nice!!! There was no 2021 XLT at the lot with the 18 inch tires. I checked the size of the " Limited" tires 275/65r20 would be 34.1 inches in diameter and if I picked a 2021 F250 XLT on the build and price, the 275/65r18 the diameter would be 32.1 . I do not know what the the level of 2021 xlt is at the tailgate, but if it is the same at 58.5 (LIMITED ) height minus the 1 inch for 18 inch tires instead of 20 inch tires then that would be 57.5 inches tailgate height. Since the150 GD is 61 inches that would be a 3.5 inch gap. If the Grand Design dealership hitch guy cannot satisfy me on all possible changes to help the be rail gap of 6 inches I may have to change trucks (which I do not want to do). My 2017 has the Camper package and FX off road, so I do not think there will be much sag with the 150 GD

Many decades ago before I started hauling my own fiver a friend inherited a small fiver that sat too low for his truck. After much head scratching and looking into options he had a welder/body shop that he trusted install blocks between the trailer frame and suspension to lift the trailer. Made the trailer look like an old woman with her skirts hiked up to cross a stream, and I think he probably had to had a step stool at the bottom of his steps, but it worked for him. He said it was much cheaper than trying to get a new truck.

FWIW. My 2020 f350 xlt fx4 lb 18" wheels measures 57" to the bed rails over the rear axle.

So Ted I am thinking your over the center of you tailgate is probably around 58 inches?.
camper and fx4 pkg. It also had a extra leaf spring

Jkwilson the F250 2017 to 2019 were made with 3.5 inch rear blocks I have the 2017 Lariat with the Camper fx4 pkg. Your truck has the 2 inch blocks. So right off the bat that is 1.5 inch difference. I am also assuming that the combination Camper Pkg and FX4 has something to do with the rest of the height. In 2020 they have gone back to 2 inch blocks due to complaints from the rv industry.

I have talked to my dealership and they will not make the change in blocks back to 2" so I bought a new 2021 f250 today to overcome the problem. Also the trade in truck prices are good right now because of the lack of new inventory and (subsequently) used trucks due to the closure of the truck plant last spring.

Congrats on the new truck, Did you get gas or diesel? if gas, 6.2 or 7.3? What is the payload on it? Yellow sticker in door jamb?

Thanks, got a great deal turning in my 2017 Lariat 6.2. In Ontario, there is only a couple of used Lariats for sale at the dealerships, in the entire province, along with the fact there is an overall truck shortage . so the trade in value was something I couldn`t refuse. Just ordered an XLT 6.2. Moved up to 4.30 gears though. Guarantee it won`t be 60 inches at the tailgate LOL, My last payload was 2880 lbs. Without the Camper pkg and FX4 I am pretty sure it will be around 3000 lbs

I’d have had a hard time passing Godzilla if I was ordering a new truck. Proven technology, lots of cubic inches and more torque at low RPM than the 6.2.

JK, yes I looked at it closely. Up here, on the XLT pkg, the 7.3 is $3100 more (includes tax) The 6.2 with 4.30 tows 15000 lbs. and the 7.3 with 3.55 tows 14700 lbs (4.3 tows 15000.) I owned a 2017 with 3.73 and I did not have any issues. Just wanted to keep with my past positive experience.