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  • Help- Bad sway

    I have a new 2021 31G Toy Hauler. I pull it with a 2021 Ford F-250 Diesel with max tow package. I also have a Weight Safe tow hitch with sway bars. My toy is a Can Am two seater Maverick. It weighs around 1800 lbs. We loaded it backwards to try and put the weight closer to the axle. We also filled the fresh water tank 3/4 full. At any speed above 55mph, the rig had consistent terrible sway and was literally not drivable over 60. I am an experienced RV owner and have pulled various trailers for years. However this is my first toy hauler. The obvious concern is the design of the axle which forces the major toy load to all be located aft of the axle. My tongue weight was 1400 lbs prior to installing the sway bars.
    My distributed tongue weight was in line with guidance from Weigh safe at 2850.When the 31G is empty, it tows wonderfully and with almost no effort. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, HDJ

  • #2
    Did you get a tongue weight with the toy in the box. Your symptoms sound like too little tongue weight to me.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by HDJ View Post
      I have a new 2021 31G Toy Hauler. I pull it with a 2021 Ford F-250 Diesel with max tow package. I also have a Weight Safe tow hitch with sway bars. My toy is a Can Am two seater Maverick. It weighs around 1800 lbs. We loaded it backwards to try and put the weight closer to the axle. We also filled the fresh water tank 3/4 full. At any speed above 55mph, the rig had consistent terrible sway and was literally not drivable over 60. I am an experienced RV owner and have pulled various trailers for years. However this is my first toy hauler. The obvious concern is the design of the axle which forces the major toy load to all be located aft of the axle. My tongue weight was 1400 lbs prior to installing the sway bars.
      My distributed tongue weight was in line with guidance from Weigh safe at 2850.When the 31G is empty, it tows wonderfully and with almost no effort. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, HDJ
      Do you have a CAT scale nearby? A few measurements will tell the tale. http://catscale.com/

      Configure the 31G "ideally". If that means minimum water, then only load the minimum you'd normally carry. It "ideally" means 3/4 full then add that, too. All the other "stuff" normally carried should be in the camper (food, drinks, whatever) that you'll take with you for a weekend of camping. Have the Maverick loaded in the back.

      Load the truck with all the "stuff" (and people, pets, etc) that will go camping. Fill up with diesel and DEF just before weighing.

      Go to the CAT scale and weigh the combination with the weight distribution hitch engaged. Get the truck's front axle, rear axle, and the trailer axle's weights. (Should be three distinct weights.)

      Pull off the scale and disengage the WDH's "arms" (but leave the trailer attached to the truck!). Pull back on the scale and weigh the combination again. Again, three distinct weights.

      Pull off the scale and park the camper in a safe spot. Weigh just the truck. You should have two distinct weights (front and rear axle).

      With those numbers we can solve the mystery.

      Use the CAT weigh app and the process is really easy. Lots of YouTube videos on how to use it if you're unfamiliar.

      Howard

      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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      • #4
        I agree with the others that you need to visit a scale and get accurate certified scale weights to make a determination. Regarding hauling water - did you know that your 31G has two fresh water tanks sitting side by side in front of the axle? This will allow for some pretty precise weight adjustments if needed.

        Jim
        Jim and Ginnie
        2024 Solitude 310GK
        GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
        GDRV Rally Support Coordinator

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        • #5
          Thanks for all the input and advice. I will look into the closest CAT scale.To answer your question Brian, My tongue weight is 1600 lbs loaded but without the Can AM. Add the Can Am and it drops to 1400 lbs. So what should my tongue weight be? The Weigh Safe app states that at 12,000 GTW, the safe tongue weight range will be between 1200 & 1800 lbs. Do any of you have a 31G that you haul a side by side in and have been happy with the pull quality overall? Thanks again, Henry

          Comment


          • #6
            Can you get a picture of the complete vehicle? Is the trailer level, nose hight, or nose low?

            Also, have you checked the tongue weight before engaging the weight distribution bars and after engaging the bars? Have you tried filling the water tank vs 75%, as 75% means there is a lot of slosh room in the tank which can add to sway once it starts.

            Does anyone know if there is a garage capacity? The 31G has about a 3k payload but that does not mean that you can put it all in the garage.
            Joseph
            Tow
            Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
            Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
            South of Houston Texas

            Comment


            • #7
              Good point on the water also maybe causing issues. May be best to fill 100% to stop the slosh. Truck is pretty level when loaded which again could be an indication of light tongue weight. The scale process will be telling. I located a CAT scale close to my house.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HDJ View Post
                Thanks for all the input and advice. I will look into the closest CAT scale.To answer your question Brian, My tongue weight is 1600 lbs loaded but without the Can AM. Add the Can Am and it drops to 1400 lbs. So what should my tongue weight be? The Weigh Safe app states that at 12,000 GTW, the safe tongue weight range will be between 1200 & 1800 lbs. Do any of you have a 31G that you haul a side by side in and have been happy with the pull quality overall? Thanks again, Henry
                By definition, a safe tongue weight is a percentage of the actual weight of the trailer. The means the "right" tongue weight on a toy hauler will change with a toy in the garage and without a toy in the garage.

                While you're at the CAT scale, consider adding two more weighs to the process.

                After weighing with the toy in the garage and WDH disconnected, remove the toy from the garage and weigh the truck & camper with and without the WDH connected. That will give numbers to compare the two scenarios and what the "right" tongue weight should be, appropriate WDH settings in each scenario, and what you'll need to do with water (if anything).

                Once you know the right value for tongue weight in both scenarios, and assuming the trailer is not loaded drastically different from when weighed at the CAT scale, a Sherline scale can be used at home to verify the tongue weight. There's a lot of info on the Sherline in the Reference Material section: https://gdrvowners.com/towing-and-hi...g-helpful-info

                If you do take the toy out of the garage, consider asking a friend to come along to keep an eye on it while you weigh the rig again. It's a highly mobile environment around CAT scales...sure don't want your toy "walking away".

                Howard

                P.S. I'm moving this thread to the Towing and Hitches channel.
                Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Spec's for the 31G say 100 gal fresh water tank. Since the 2 tanks listed are 55.2 gal and 53 gal in the parts section, I am guessing there are 2 fresh water tanks in the unit. One of the moderators may be able to confirm. Location of these tanks and how they fill is going to be a question. It could be that one of the tanks is centered over the axles and the other fore of axle. These tanks will need to be joined some way in order to be able to use all of the water. It could be that there is a small line between the 2 tanks or a large line. Not knowing how the tanks fill, if your weigh safe has a scale in it (guessing it does by the initial post data), you may hook to the TV, fill the tanks (i suggest using a water meter like Rob does https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) pausing at say 25 gallon, 50 gallon, 75 gallon, and 100 gallon for a couple of hours at each setting while watching and recording the change in the tongue weight if there is any. Also note that if you have a generator, it is not considered in the self weight of the unit and deducts from cargo capacity. In a quick internet search, I found 2 ads for units showing cargo capacity of approx 2200 lbs you will need to verify cargo capacity of your particular unit. Someone else please advise if water is part of this cargo capacity as that will reduce you toy capacity significantly along with 30 gallons of fuel (approx 195 lbs).

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Joseph
                  Tow
                  Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                  Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                  South of Houston Texas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post
                    Spec's for the 31G say 100 gal fresh water tank. Since the 2 tanks listed are 55.2 gal and 53 gal in the parts section, I am guessing there are 2 fresh water tanks in the unit. One of the moderators may be able to confirm. Location of these tanks and how they fill is going to be a question. It could be that one of the tanks is centered over the axles and the other fore of axle. These tanks will need to be joined some way in order to be able to use all of the water. It could be that there is a small line between the 2 tanks or a large line. Not knowing how the tanks fill, if your weigh safe has a scale in it (guessing it does by the initial post data), you may hook to the TV, fill the tanks (i suggest using a water meter like Rob does https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) pausing at say 25 gallon, 50 gallon, 75 gallon, and 100 gallon for a couple of hours at each setting while watching and recording the change in the tongue weight if there is any. Also note that if you have a generator, it is not considered in the self weight of the unit and deducts from cargo capacity. In a quick internet search, I found 2 ads for units showing cargo capacity of approx 2200 lbs you will need to verify cargo capacity of your particular unit. Someone else please advise if water is part of this cargo capacity as that will reduce you toy capacity significantly along with 30 gallons of fuel (approx 195 lbs).

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                    the 31g has two fresh water tanks, mounted cross ways but both are in FRONT of the axels. So they are essentially crossways right under the kitchen. I've had that verified on this forum and will add the picture if I can find it. We have a 31G and put 2 Polaris 570 Sportsman in the back. One is a Touring, so together they way 1430 lbs. We just picked ours up. I have driven it about 100 miles with the garage empty, and about 50 with the two ATVs in there. Empty, it seemed heavy on the tongue. Loaded, it did seem a bit lighter on the tongue. As soon as it gets warmer I am taking it out to get all of the weights mentioned. and also to re-do the equalizer hitch adjustment. I don't think the dealer really walked through the hitch setup like Equalizer says to. But, I was driving 65 mph with no issues or real concern. I had no water in the camper as it's still winterized.

                    Here is a good link that helps sort out the weights, along with the experience guys on this forum. http://www.towingplanner.com/ActualW...ailerCatScales

                    hope this helps,
                    JL
                    2121 Momentum 31G towed by 2017 Ford F-250 SuperDuty / Gale Banks

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                    • #11
                      This is the thread with the floorplan showing the location of the water tanks. https://gdrvowners.com/forum/operati...n-momentum-31g

                      what model of Weight-Safe hitch do you have? Aren't they the ones with the scale actually built in the hitch?
                      Last edited by jlackman; 03-03-2021, 10:44 PM.
                      2121 Momentum 31G towed by 2017 Ford F-250 SuperDuty / Gale Banks

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                      • #12
                        Unfortunately I am in the same boat with the 31G toyhauler towing stability problem. Have done all the weighing and testing and you're doing nothing wrong to cause it. Had a Blue Ox sway pro hitch initially and it was squirrely like yours hauling a UTV so went all in with a 3500$ ProPride 3P, the latest Hensley style hitch known to resolve any sway and still don't have it under control. This model was clearly not over designed as a rear garage cargo hauler trailer must be or well tested with a UTV in the garage for the range of loading conditions typical of toyhauler users before going to production. The performance of this model is so bad the rear tires of my Ram 3500 show sideways scuffing marks from the sway energy the trailer generates. The rig is fundamentaly unsound for use currently.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vegas Native View Post
                          Unfortunately I am in the same boat with the 31G toyhauler towing stability problem. Have done all the weighing and testing and you're doing nothing wrong to cause it. Had a Blue Ox sway pro hitch initially and it was squirrely like yours hauling a UTV so went all in with a 3500$ ProPride 3P, the latest Hensley style hitch known to resolve any sway and still don't have it under control. This model was clearly not over designed as a rear garage cargo hauler trailer must be or well tested with a UTV in the garage for the range of loading conditions typical of toyhauler users before going to production. The performance of this model is so bad the rear tires of my Ram 3500 show sideways scuffing marks from the sway energy the trailer generates. The rig is fundamentaly unsound for use currently.
                          Can you post weigh tickets or have some documentation showing the pin weight and gross weight when loaded vs unloaded? Not doubting or challenging the experience documented in your post, but numbers will support feedback to GD.

                          Howard
                          Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

                          2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Vegas Native Welcome to the family and the forum!

                            I hope that you can find a resolution to your problem.

                            When you have time, the moderators have created a welcome letter to help new members navigate the forum and complete their profile to make it easier to get the help that they see. The welcome letter can be found at https://gdrvowners.com/forum/main-fo...to-new-members
                            Jerry and Kelly Powell, with Halo, Nash, Reid, Cleo, Rosie, and the two newest additions Shaggy and Bella..
                            Nash County, NC
                            2020 Solitude 390RK-R​

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                            • #15
                              I've got a 31g but I don't have any problems this bad. I've returned from the second trip, and have about 400 miles on it. I load two Polaris Sportsman 570 in back. In my case, I have some sway, worse in windy conditions or on asphalt with ruts in it.

                              Some details;
                              I see above the question about does water come out of the cargo, and the answer is YES, the water has to be deducted out of the cargo. It says that right on the sticker on the door or somewhere. Mine is in storage lot so can't run out and check.

                              I agree with the stats above stating that the cargo capacity published is 2200 lbs. So, between the water (100 gallons) and the fuel (37 gallons) and right there you have 1,000 lbs gone and you're down to 1,200 lbs remaining cargo weight.

                              I bought the tongue weight scale from Sherline. Fully loaded with water, fuel and 2x ATVs, my tongue weight was 1300 lbs.

                              Trailer with 2x ATV but NO water - tongue weight was 1,050
                              Trailer with 2x ATV but 100 gallons of water (adding weight to tongue since water is ahead of trailer axels) - tongue weight 1300 - 1350.
                              Trailer with NO ATVs and NO water (new) was very tongue heavy; sat the SuperDuty down on the helper springs. I have never pulled something that dropped it on the helper springs like that. I think the helper springs are contacted about 1500 lbs tongue.

                              The SuperDuty TV is rated at 1800 lbs tongue weight.

                              Another interesting thing to track; how much does it drop the TV when dropping it on the hitch? This trailer drops the SuperDuty TV about 4".

                              I will say it's not the most relaxing thing to tow, but I've done mountains and some off road with no issues. The sway I feel on the highway is rare and minimal. I drive 65 MPH when speed limits allow. I think if you're hauling a 4 seat side by side, it's probably over gross if you fill water and gas.

                              I have also experimented with moving the ATVs one foot forward or back in the garage. That doesn't seem to make much difference. When I load my two ATV, I have about 5' space in the back.

                              I really would like to hear what GD would say about this situation.

                              JL
                              2121 Momentum 31G towed by 2017 Ford F-250 SuperDuty / Gale Banks

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