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Anderson Ultimate 5th wheel gooseneck hitch

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tophermiller View Post
    Anyone know if Grand Design has ever weighed in on the topic of the Anderson Hitch? I am taking delivery of a new Momentum 351M soon and pretty much concluded the AUH is my only option. Why? Because I am going to be only a few hundred from my payload limit and I have a 6’4” bed in my RAM. I’m worried about the turning radius, but equally worried about the weight of most slider hitches. This seems to be the best compromise. Does Grand Design condone it or warn against it?
    There have been conflicting responses from GD regarding the Andersen Ultimate (and it's "Andersen" with an "e"). Bottom line is that the frame is warranted by Lippert and the burden is on them to prove that any frame damage was caused by the hitch. This is not going to happen since the Andersen Ultimate (and the similar PullRite) put the same stresses on the trailer frame as do conventional fifth wheel hitches. I personally towed my first 12,000 miles with an Andersen Ultimate with nary an issue. Several dealers performed warranty work on the trailer and never mentioned the hitch.

    Rob
    Rob & Laura
    U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
    2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
    (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by howson View Post

      cmully--welcome to Grand Design's Technical Forum.

      I see you're new, so may I pass on a usage tip? When replying to a post or asking someone a question, use the "Quote" function (like I just did) so the person (and post) you're addressing gets a notification (like you just did). Another option is to "tag" them. Use the @ symbol and then their forum name, like this: cmully

      Please repost your question using one of the techniques above, OK?

      Again, welcome!

      -Howard

      P.S. I know nothing about goosenecks or I'd have answered your question.

      howson How'd I do!?

      Thanks for the tips!

      CM
      Last edited by cmully; 01-22-2020, 11:07 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

        There is a lot of confusion in terminology surrounding the Andersen (and similar Pull-Rite UltraLite) hitches that use a ball and socket. THEY ARE NOT gooseneck hitches. Some of them attach to the truck bed using a turnover gooseneck ball, but the physics are much different than a gooseneck adapter. A true gooseneck adapter on a fifth wheel RV is a very bad idea. it puts torsional forces on the front of the trailer frame for which the frame was not designed. The Andersen Ultimate (and the Pull-Rite UltraLite) hitches do not put these torsional forces on the trailer frame and will not void your frame warranty. The Reese GooseBox is in a gray area - but since they are in bed with Lippert, the GooseBox will not void your frame warranty.

        Rob
        Second Chance Thanks Rob. I appreciate your clarity. I drive a Chevy 2500HD short bed, should/could I consider the Andersen ultimate? Any advantages the Andersen has over the traditional sliding hitch? Thanks for your time.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by cmully View Post

          Second Chance Thanks Rob. I appreciate your clarity. I drive a Chevy 2500HD short bed, should/could I consider the Andersen ultimate? Any advantages the Andersen has over the traditional sliding hitch? Thanks for your time.
          3/4-ton short bed trucks can be problematic. The Reflections are narrower than the Solitudes, so you can turn tighter with them without having a sliding hitch. A Solitude would require a sliding hitch - preferably an auto-slider - and either the Solitude or an auto-slider would be too heavy for a 3/4-ton truck (your problem with a 3/4-ton is payload, not towing capacity). We started out with a Reflection, a 2013 GMC 2500HD, and the Andersen Ultimate. The combo worked well for over 12,000 miles... except the Reflection 337 is a bit too heavy on the pin for a 3/4-ton truck - even with the lightweight Andersen hitch. Weight and simplicity are the main advantages of the Andersen (and PullRite Ultra-Lite). At less than 50 lbs., they are 1/5 the weight of the average auto-sliding hitch. That means they don't use up as much of your payload and are much easier to get in and out of the truck by yourself when you need a clean truck bed for hauling other stuff.

          When I tell about starting out with an Andersen, people often ask why we're not still using it. About a year and a half into our full-timing experience, we had the chance to trade for a 1-ton DRW long bed truck that had even fewer miles on it than our 2500HD did at the time. With our Reflection weighing in at over 3,000 lbs. on the pin, we jumped at the chance to trade trucks. Problem was that all this happened on a Friday and Saturday and we were scheduled to pull out on Sunday. The "picture frame" adapter to fit our ISR (Industry Standard Rail) Andersen to the Ford puck system could not be had in the southeastern US in time. Our dealer had a PullRite OE 18K for the Ford puck system in stock, so we bought that so we could hit the road. When we got to New Mexico to stay for a while, I listed the Andersen and it sold in a day or two. There is now another happy camper out there towing with our Andersen. I'm happy enough with the PullRite, and with a dual rear wheel truck, don't have to worry about the weight of the hitch.

          Rob

          PS: re-reading your question, just want to clarify that the Andersen is not a sliding hitch. It works like a conventional fixed 5th wheel hitch.
          Last edited by Second Chance; 01-23-2020, 12:48 AM.
          Rob & Laura
          U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
          2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
          2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
          (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
          Full time since 08/2015

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

            3/4-ton short bed trucks can be problematic. The Reflections are narrower than the Solitudes, so you can turn tighter with them without having a sliding hitch. A Solitude would require a sliding hitch - preferably an auto-slider - and either the Solitude or an auto-slider would be too heavy for a 3/4-ton truck (your problem with a 3/4-ton is payload, not towing capacity). We started out with a Reflection, a 2013 GMC 2500HD, and the Andersen Ultimate. The combo worked well for over 12,000 miles... except the Reflection 337 is a bit too heavy on the pin for a 3/4-ton truck - even with the lightweight Andersen hitch. Weight and simplicity are the main advantages of the Andersen (and PullRite Ultra-Lite). At less than 50 lbs., they are 1/5 the weight of the average auto-sliding hitch. That means they don't use up as much of your payload and are much easier to get in and out of the truck by yourself when you need a clean truck bed for hauling other stuff.

            When I tell about starting out with an Andersen, people often ask why we're not still using it. About a year and a half into our full-timing experience, we had the chance to trade for a 1-ton DRW long bed truck that had even fewer miles on it than our 2500HD did at the time. With our Reflection weighing in at over 3,000 lbs. on the pin, we jumped at the chance to trade trucks. Problem was that all this happened on a Friday and Saturday and we were scheduled to pull out on Sunday. The "picture frame" adapter to fit our ISR (Industry Standard Rail) Andersen to the Ford puck system could not be had in the southeastern US in time. Our dealer had a PullRite OE 18K for the Ford puck system in stock, so we bought that so we could hit the road. When we got to New Mexico to stay for a while, I listed the Andersen and it sold in a day or two. There is now another happy camper out there towing with our Andersen. I'm happy enough with the PullRite, and with a dual rear wheel truck, don't have to worry about the weight of the hitch.

            Rob

            PS: re-reading your question, just want to clarify that the Andersen is not a sliding hitch. It works like a conventional fixed 5th wheel hitch.
            Second Chance

            Thanks for the info, I appreciate the knowledge. Better to learn here than in the finance office! I'm looking into a Momentum and you nailed it on the head that the hitch weight of the trailer and the hitch put me a few pounds from my max payload. I don't have a hitch system of any kind yet (still have a bumper pull trailer but looking to upgrade). In doing some quick research it looks like the PullRite might be the best option as it's a bit lighter than some of the others. From your knowledge/experience would you agree considering cost & weight? Or would it be worth installing a gooseneck + Andersen hitch?

            Again, thanks for your time.

            Cass

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by cmully View Post

              Second Chance

              Thanks for the info, I appreciate the knowledge. Better to learn here than in the finance office! I'm looking into a Momentum and you nailed it on the head that the hitch weight of the trailer and the hitch put me a few pounds from my max payload. I don't have a hitch system of any kind yet (still have a bumper pull trailer but looking to upgrade). In doing some quick research it looks like the PullRite might be the best option as it's a bit lighter than some of the others. From your knowledge/experience would you agree considering cost & weight? Or would it be worth installing a gooseneck + Andersen hitch?

              Again, thanks for your time.

              Cass
              If you estimate 20 - 25% of the fifth wheel's GVWR (not empty weight) as a pin weight, I don't think there's any Momentum that's a suitable fit for a 3/4-ton truck. Even the lightest "G Class" Momentums are going to put well over 3,000 lbs. on the pin. That's a no-go for a 3/4-ton truck. Forget the published UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) and pin weights from the web site and brochures. Those are with nothing on board.

              Rob
              Rob & Laura
              U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
              2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
              2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
              (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
              Full time since 08/2015

              Comment


              • #22
                Picked up an AUH. Any thoughts on choosing a ball for the truck? There are several mfgs and lots of price variation. I'm looking at the Curt; OEM 5th wheel prep from RAM - they sell Curt as factory.
                CJ & Jo
                '17 327M
                '19 RAM 2500HD 6.7 Cummins

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

                  If you estimate 20 - 25% of the fifth wheel's GVWR (not empty weight) as a pin weight, I don't think there's any Momentum that's a suitable fit for a 3/4-ton truck. Even the lightest "G Class" Momentums are going to put well over 3,000 lbs. on the pin. That's a no-go for a 3/4-ton truck. Forget the published UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) and pin weights from the web site and brochures. Those are with nothing on board.

                  Rob
                  Second Chance Hello again. I just saw that Andersen has an Ultimate 5th Wheel high which is rail mounted wheighing only 40lbs. I know it's not a sliding hitch which we've discussed before but thought it could solve the payload issue. Curious of your thoughts on this in a 3/4 ton truck... Perhaps you could clarify for me whether I'd need to turn 90 degrees too. I can't and so I don't turn 90 now with my bumper pull is it a necessity with a 5th wheel? Thanks for your time.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by cmully View Post
                    Second Chance Hello again. I just saw that Andersen has an Ultimate 5th Wheel high which is rail mounted wheighing only 40lbs. I know it's not a sliding hitch which we've discussed before but thought it could solve the payload issue. Curious of your thoughts on this in a 3/4 ton truck... Perhaps you could clarify for me whether I'd need to turn 90 degrees too. I can't and so I don't turn 90 now with my bumper pull is it a necessity with a 5th wheel? Thanks for your time.
                    Saving 150 lbs. on the hitch is not going to do it for a Momentum on a 3/4-ton truck. Sorry. You could be careful on turns and preserve your truck cab and rear window - but you'd still not have enough truck for a Momentum. I pulled over 12K miles with an Andersen Ultimate and a 6' 6" bed. Being extremely careful I managed to never cause any damage to the truck or trailer with that setup - but it was a Reflection. I'm afraid you're still just trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. The choice is yours, but I wouldn't tow a Momentum with a 3/4-ton truck.

                    Rob
                    Rob & Laura
                    U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
                    2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
                    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
                    (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
                    Full time since 08/2015

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

                      Saving 150 lbs. on the hitch is not going to do it for a Momentum on a 3/4-ton truck. Sorry. You could be careful on turns and preserve your truck cab and rear window - but you'd still not have enough truck for a Momentum. I pulled over 12K miles with an Andersen Ultimate and a 6' 6" bed. Being extremely careful I managed to never cause any damage to the truck or trailer with that setup - but it was a Reflection. I'm afraid you're still just trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. The choice is yours, but I wouldn't tow a Momentum with a 3/4-ton truck.

                      Rob
                      Second Chance No need for apologies. That's the kind of information I'm looking for. While the factory numbers may add up, it's the real information, like yours, that I'm looking for.

                      Thanks again.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Since I started this thread I have learned so much about hitches, laws concerning hitches, laws defining whether it is a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch, and the weight ratings for tow vehicles and trailers.

                        I tow my 2020 Reflection 337 RLS with an 07 GMC Sierra Classic 2500 HD, 4x4, CCSB, D/A, AUH and I am very pleased with the stability and ease oit tows it with. I am at the max on my weights and if I was to move to a Solitude or Momentum I would need to go to a dually 3500 minimum to be able to stay within the weight ratings.

                        Most states classify the Anderson Ultimate hitch as a goose neck hitch. and most, I believe all states, require a goose neck hitch to use safety chains. The chains must be crossed and only long enough to allow full articulation of the trailer/TV. In fact most states define a goose neck hitch as any hitch that is not a true 5th wheel hitch.

                        I am very pleased with my AUH but, if I had it to do over again I would have to think long and hard to make my decision. My 07 GMC is highly modified both the drive train and suspension and that contributes to how well it tows my unit. The 337 is my first 5th wheel and after towing tag a longs for 40+ years it is a pleasant experience.

                        Everything being said I would recommend going with a 3500 DRW TV for a 337 of larger unit. My 337 weighs 14,000 lb and has 3,000 lbs on the pin which is the max, and that is up for interpretation, that the GMC factory says for pin weight.

                        I realize that others will say this and that but, I am very pleased with my rig and look forward to many miles of driving it.
                        Barry :-D

                        2007 GMC 2500HD, CCSB, D/A
                        2020 Reflection 337 RLS
                        2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited w/EcoDiesel
                        Yanmar Sc2450

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Marauderer

                          Barry

                          That is a great report , thanks for sharing. It seems you have a good handle on your set up.

                          Brian
                          Brian & Michelle
                          2018 Reflection 29RS
                          2022 Chevy 3500HD

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Marauderer View Post
                            Since I started this thread I have learned so much about hitches, laws concerning hitches, laws defining whether it is a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch, and the weight ratings for tow vehicles and trailers.

                            I tow my 2020 Reflection 337 RLS with an 07 GMC Sierra Classic 2500 HD, 4x4, CCSB, D/A, AUH and I am very pleased with the stability and ease oit tows it with. I am at the max on my weights and if I was to move to a Solitude or Momentum I would need to go to a dually 3500 minimum to be able to stay within the weight ratings.

                            Most states classify the Anderson Ultimate hitch as a goose neck hitch. and most, I believe all states, require a goose neck hitch to use safety chains. The chains must be crossed and only long enough to allow full articulation of the trailer/TV. In fact most states define a goose neck hitch as any hitch that is not a true 5th wheel hitch.

                            I am very pleased with my AUH but, if I had it to do over again I would have to think long and hard to make my decision. My 07 GMC is highly modified both the drive train and suspension and that contributes to how well it tows my unit. The 337 is my first 5th wheel and after towing tag a longs for 40+ years it is a pleasant experience.

                            Everything being said I would recommend going with a 3500 DRW TV for a 337 of larger unit. My 337 weighs 14,000 lb and has 3,000 lbs on the pin which is the max, and that is up for interpretation, that the GMC factory says for pin weight.

                            I realize that others will say this and that but, I am very pleased with my rig and look forward to many miles of driving it.
                            I have to make a correction, here. The laws that govern whether or not a trailer hitch setup requires safety chains or not is based on whether or not there is a ball and socket coupler involved - not whether or not the hitch is a "gooseneck" hitch (which the Andersen is not). There are only two states that require safety chains on an Andersen or PullRite Superlite hitch... Texas and one state in the midwest which I can't recall right now.

                            Rob
                            Rob & Laura
                            U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
                            2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
                            2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
                            (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
                            Full time since 08/2015

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

                              I have to make a correction, here. The laws that govern whether or not a trailer hitch setup requires safety chains or not is based on whether or not there is a ball and socket coupler involved - not whether or not the hitch is a "gooseneck" hitch (which the Andersen is not). There are only two states that require safety chains on an Andersen or PullRite Superlite hitch... Texas and one state in the midwest which I can't recall right now.

                              Rob
                              I disagree. Check out the AAA site for safety chain requirements it covers all states and yes it may be flaqwed but AAA is a pretty reliable reference.

                              https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-hitch-signals/

                              Barry :-D

                              2007 GMC 2500HD, CCSB, D/A
                              2020 Reflection 337 RLS
                              2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited w/EcoDiesel
                              Yanmar Sc2450

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Marauderer View Post

                                I disagree. Check out the AAA site for safety chain requirements it covers all states and yes it may be flaqwed but AAA is a pretty reliable reference.

                                https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-hitch-signals/
                                That's a nice list - but it doesn't differentiate between types of hitches and appears to be addressing normal "bumper-pull" trailers. I wouldn't consider that an authoritative source at all. I have actually read the code for many states and consulted much more reliable sources.

                                Rob

                                Edit: From Andersen's own web site (they reference three states that require safety chains for the Andersen hitch because of the ball attachment):

                                https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq...th-wheel-hitch
                                Last edited by Second Chance; 04-26-2020, 03:14 PM.
                                Rob & Laura
                                U.S. Army Retired (Rob)
                                2012 F350 DRW CC Lariat PS 6.7, PullRite OE 18K
                                2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS and disc brakes, solar, BB LiFePO4, DP windows
                                (Previously in a 2016 Reflection 337RLS)
                                Full time since 08/2015

                                Comment

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