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2020 Reflection 297- Can I pull it with a half ton?

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  • 2020 Reflection 297- Can I pull it with a half ton?

    Thanks to all of you on this forum in advance for your help. This is my first trailer. Never towed anything before. The GVWR of the 2020 Grand Design Reflection is 10,000 lbs. The unloaded weight is just over 8K. I'm looking at the new Ford F150's which claim that they can tow 14,000 with the right configuration and their Max Tow package. So I think (but am not sure), I should be OK with the trailer weight but worry about the hitch/tongue weight. Grand Design says it's about 800 lbs on the Reflection 297, but that seems very low. Others have told me to count on 10-15% for hitch weight which means it could go as high as 1,500 lbs 😱.

    The 2021 Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost with Max Tow package claims it can pull 14,000 pounds which is pretty amazing. From what I can tell on the Ford site, the ball weight for the 2021 V6 Ecoboost with the max tow package is only 500 pounds, but I've heard it could go higher with a weight distribution hitch. Do any of you guys know where I can find the exact max rating for that F150 with a distribution hitch? I've looked at all the ford towing PDF guides, but couldn't figure it out.

    Many folks have advised me to just get a 3/4 ton vehicle, but it will be my only vehicle and it's way too big and too much for just driving around the city where i live. I might only be towing 25% time during the summers.

    Thank so much for help!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Marco View Post
    Thanks to all of you on this forum in advance for your help. This is my first trailer. Never towed anything before. The GVWR of the 2020 Grand Design Reflection is 10,000 lbs. The unloaded weight is just over 8K. I'm looking at the new Ford F150's which claim that they can tow 14,000 with the right configuration and their Max Tow package. So I think (but am not sure), I should be OK with the trailer weight but worry about the hitch/tongue weight. Grand Design says it's about 800 lbs on the Reflection 297, but that seems very low. Others have told me to count on 10-15% for hitch weight which means it could go as high as 1,500 lbs 😱.

    The 2021 Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost with Max Tow package claims it can pull 14,000 pounds which is pretty amazing. From what I can tell on the Ford site, the ball weight for the 2021 V6 Ecoboost with the max tow package is only 500 pounds, but I've heard it could go higher with a weight distribution hitch. Do any of you guys know where I can find the exact max rating for that F150 with a distribution hitch? I've looked at all the ford towing PDF guides, but couldn't figure it out.

    Many folks have advised me to just get a 3/4 ton vehicle, but it will be my only vehicle and it's way too big and too much for just driving around the city where i live. I might only be towing 25% time during the summers.

    Thank so much for help!
    For what it's worth, I got rid of my 2019 F150 (max tow, ecoboost, 3.55 rear end, 20" wheels) in December. I am pulling a 297RSTS as well. The specs may say you can do it, but I was not thrilled. My payload was 1800 and change which means with the tongue weight, dogs, wife and me we were at or slightly over payload. 2021s may have more payload advertised. It ran most all the time in 8th gear and just an overpass would drop to 6th or 7th to maintain 63mph. And even though I had adequate tongue weight loading-wise, it didn't take much cross wind to have me taking chunks out of the seat. Others may say otherwise, but I would suggest at least an F250. Myself, I decided to make it a one and done upgrade and got an F350 SRW, 3.55 locking rear end and 6.7L diesel. First trip will be this month where we'll see how it goes.
    Terry and Patty (Dogs-Sophie and Tessa)
    2020 Reflection 297RSTS - bought Oct 2019
    2021 F350 crew cab, SRW, 6.7L diesel, 14K equal-i-zer hitch

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Marco.

      See page 11 of https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content..._F150_Dec3.pdf bottom right corner says 1,400 lbs with weight distributing hitch.
      Joseph
      Tow
      Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
      Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
      South of Houston Texas

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Marco View Post
        Thanks to all of you on this forum in advance for your help. This is my first trailer. Never towed anything before. The GVWR of the 2020 Grand Design Reflection is 10,000 lbs. The unloaded weight is just over 8K. I'm looking at the new Ford F150's which claim that they can tow 14,000 with the right configuration and their Max Tow package. So I think (but am not sure), I should be OK with the trailer weight but worry about the hitch/tongue weight. Grand Design says it's about 800 lbs on the Reflection 297, but that seems very low. Others have told me to count on 10-15% for hitch weight which means it could go as high as 1,500 lbs 😱.

        The 2021 Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost with Max Tow package claims it can pull 14,000 pounds which is pretty amazing. From what I can tell on the Ford site, the ball weight for the 2021 V6 Ecoboost with the max tow package is only 500 pounds, but I've heard it could go higher with a weight distribution hitch. Do any of you guys know where I can find the exact max rating for that F150 with a distribution hitch? I've looked at all the ford towing PDF guides, but couldn't figure it out.

        Many folks have advised me to just get a 3/4 ton vehicle, but it will be my only vehicle and it's way too big and too much for just driving around the city where i live. I might only be towing 25% time during the summers.

        Thank so much for help!
        I did tow my 297RSTS with a 2009 Tundra. Truck did well and I had no issues towing mine with the Tundra. It can be done but depending on comfort level as everyone's is different. I also know that the hitch on my Tundra was a class IV+ rated for more than what Ford rates their hitch for which I think is 1200 - 1300 lbs. My tongue weight is around 1300 lbs and some with the 297RSTS have come in at 1500lbs so the hitch on the F150 may not be rated for this trailer. It is heavy on the tongue.

        Since you are buying the new truck I would suggest going right to a 1 ton single rear wheel truck and skip the 3/4 ton. Both will return the same mileage but the 1 ton will give you more options later on and have a much higher payload and not really cost you anymore money.

        Buying a new truck I would not tow with a 1/2 ton especially since this is all new to you.

        Rob
        Rob & Barb
        2022 RAM 3500 Big Horn, 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
        2022 Solitude 378MBS

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, wow, wow. You guys are great. Thanks for those awesome replies! πŸ‘πŸ». Exactly the info I was looking for. I went to the Ford dealer yesterday and drove the F150. Nice car. The only thing that I am struggling with is trying to find a 3/4 ton that can fit into my carage, which is 238 inches ;-(. The F150 was like 232 so that is another reason why I was leaning that way.

          Do you guys happen to know of any rental companies, websites, etc where I might be able to try towing both vehicles before buying?

          Since I mostly won't need a truck around town, I was also thinking well maybe I could do like a long term 3 month rental on a truck, but the few sites I checked, got pretty expensive, pretty fast, near $100- a day for a 3/4 ton.

          Thanks again for everything!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Marco View Post
            Wow, wow, wow. You guys are great. Thanks for those awesome replies! πŸ‘πŸ». Exactly the info I was looking for. I went to the Ford dealer yesterday and drove the F150. Nice car. The only thing that I am struggling with is trying to find a 3/4 ton that can fit into my carage, which is 238 inches ;-(. The F150 was like 232 so that is another reason why I was leaning that way.

            Do you guys happen to know of any rental companies, websites, etc where I might be able to try towing both vehicles before buying?

            Since I mostly won't need a truck around town, I was also thinking well maybe I could do like a long term 3 month rental on a truck, but the few sites I checked, got pretty expensive, pretty fast, near $100- a day for a 3/4 ton.

            Thanks again for everything!
            Sorry, can't help with rentals. And check the height too. I have literally 3/4" clearance. My satellite antennas on the back of the cab just tick the rubber seal around the garage opening.

            Good luck with whatever you decide.
            Terry and Patty (Dogs-Sophie and Tessa)
            2020 Reflection 297RSTS - bought Oct 2019
            2021 F350 crew cab, SRW, 6.7L diesel, 14K equal-i-zer hitch

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Marco View Post
              Wow, wow, wow. You guys are great. Thanks for those awesome replies! πŸ‘πŸ». Exactly the info I was looking for. I went to the Ford dealer yesterday and drove the F150. Nice car. The only thing that I am struggling with is trying to find a 3/4 ton that can fit into my carage, which is 238 inches ;-(. The F150 was like 232 so that is another reason why I was leaning that way.

              Do you guys happen to know of any rental companies, websites, etc where I might be able to try towing both vehicles before buying?

              Since I mostly won't need a truck around town, I was also thinking well maybe I could do like a long term 3 month rental on a truck, but the few sites I checked, got pretty expensive, pretty fast, near $100- a day for a 3/4 ton.

              Thanks again for everything!
              You have gotten some great advice here, and I applaud you for working this math out before you purchase rather than after. You are exactly right about the weights, take the dry and unloaded trailer weights and save them for kindling on your first campfire. You want to work with your GVWR, and 15% of that as a max tongue weight. You may end up less that that, but figure on that as a worst case scenario.

              As far as renting watch what you find, most rental companies exclude towing in the rental agreement, and even specifically remove the hitches (and brake controllers) from the trucks in their rental fleets. Enterprise Truck Rental (different from enterprise rent a car) rents Super Duties, but you would need to check with them on hitches.

              If you end up with a 150, Ford has a rarely seen option called the Max Payload package (which is completely separate from the Max Tow package) that significantly increases the payload. This is largely done through equipping the truck with LT tires instead of P tires. My understanding is this truck is rarely stocked at dealers, so you would need to look into ordering one. @Cate&Rob is the only person I know with one, he is very knowledgeable and may jump in here.

              Lastly as suggested, if you go with a Super Duty, skip the F250 and move straight to a F350. Usually they are similar in price, ride the same, and you will get a much more useful payload, especially if you go diesel. The diesel engines are so heavy that a well equipped F250 Diesel will actually have less payload than a F150 lol. If you ever upgrade rigs you will appreciate the breathing room of the F350.

              Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.​

              Neil Citro
              2018 Reflection 28BH Pepwave
              2019 F350 6.7L Long Bed Crew Cab

              Comment


              • #8
                Marco , good advise from the others, I agree, get more truck. Finding an F-150 that would do the job would be quite the adventure I am sure. Our F-150 eco-boost with max-tow has a payload of 1820lbs, hitch 1,320 with weight distribution. Most F-150's have lower payloads due to options and other glitz that really eat up payload. You could get there but it would probably cost more than a better suited vehicle. As far as getting in the garage I am amazed at the size of modern day garages that are made for small sedans not trucks. Something I did for more door height was move the opener shuttle setting and I picked up 3 inches of height. Have fun and good luck.

                Dave
                flyfshrockies, 2021 imagine 2600RB, Ford F-150, XLT supper crew 3.5 eco boost with max tow. Dave and Toni (and the awesome Aussie Bayley, he's the social one)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marco View Post
                  Wow, wow, wow. You guys are great. Thanks for those awesome replies! πŸ‘πŸ». Exactly the info I was looking for. I went to the Ford dealer yesterday and drove the F150. Nice car. The only thing that I am struggling with is trying to find a 3/4 ton that can fit into my carage, which is 238 inches ;-(. The F150 was like 232 so that is another reason why I was leaning that way.

                  Do you guys happen to know of any rental companies, websites, etc where I might be able to try towing both vehicles before buying?

                  Since I mostly won't need a truck around town, I was also thinking well maybe I could do like a long term 3 month rental on a truck, but the few sites I checked, got pretty expensive, pretty fast, near $100- a day for a 3/4 ton.

                  Thanks again for everything!
                  Maybe go look at a RAM 3500. They are not quite as long as the F350 so that might just work out in your garage. We love our RAM so far and I can tell you from first hand experience it tows the 297RSTS very very nicely.

                  Rob
                  Rob & Barb
                  2022 RAM 3500 Big Horn, 6.7 Cummins HO/Aisin
                  2022 Solitude 378MBS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is my first day in this community and already I've benefited for all your generosity. Thanks to you all. Welcome all thoughts and opinions on the matter.
                    Last edited by Marco; 04-01-2021, 10:09 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Marco

                      There is an option on the F150 (at least there used to be . . . I haven't checked to new 2021s) called HDPP (Heavy Duty Payload Package) that will get an F150 into the payload range of a 3/4 ton. About 2500 lbs. You won't find one on a dealers lot and many dealers don't seem to even know about it. I can truly appreciate your desire to have smaller than a 3/4 or one ton for daily driving (and parking). Most RV owners actually tow for less than 10% of the miles driven.

                      BUT! (and this is an important "but") all 1/2 ton trucks (even the HDPP) come with a Class IV hitch receiver. This will limit you tongue weight to about 1200 lbs, even with a WDH. So . . . the HDPP F150 can haul a 10,000 lb trailer (I have been doing this for thousands of miles) but only if it is a 5th wheel connection, to get the pin weight up over the rear axle. The "loaded for camping" tongue weight of a Reflection TT will require a Class V hitch receiver . . . which is only available on a 3/4 ton or bigger. You might want to consider one of the "150 Series" Reflection 5th wheels if you want to stay with a (properly configured) F150.

                      Rob
                      Cate & Rob
                      (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                      2015 Reflection 303RLS
                      2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                      Bayham, Ontario, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Marco View Post
                        Wow, wow, wow. You guys are great. Thanks for those awesome replies! πŸ‘πŸ». Exactly the info I was looking for. I went to the Ford dealer yesterday and drove the F150. Nice car. The only thing that I am struggling with is trying to find a 3/4 ton that can fit into my carage, which is 238 inches ;-(. The F150 was like 232 so that is another reason why I was leaning that way.

                        Do you guys happen to know of any rental companies, websites, etc where I might be able to try towing both vehicles before buying?

                        Since I mostly won't need a truck around town, I was also thinking well maybe I could do like a long term 3 month rental on a truck, but the few sites I checked, got pretty expensive, pretty fast, near $100- a day for a 3/4 ton.

                        Thanks again for everything!
                        You might be able to rent a F-250 on Turo, which is a peer-to-peer application where vehicle owners can rent them out directly to users. It's reputable.
                        2121 Momentum 31G towed by 2017 Ford F-250 SuperDuty / Gale Banks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Cate&Rob Rob, The new 2021 towing guide is out.


                          Click image for larger version

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                          1,400 lbs tongue weight if you order the right package.
                          Attached Files
                          Joseph
                          Tow
                          Vehicle: 2024 GMC K3500 Denali Ultimate Diesel
                          Coach: 303RLS Delivered March 5, 2021
                          South of Houston Texas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marco View Post
                            So I think (but am not sure), I should be OK with the trailer weight but worry about the hitch/tongue weight. Grand Design says it's about 800 lbs on the Reflection 297, but that seems very low. Others have told me to count on 10-15% for hitch weight which means it could go as high as 1,500 lbs 😱.
                            First, you are right to worry about cargo or payload rating. Tow rating and cargo/payload are very different things. Towing is the weight you can pull or stop - so horizontal weight. Payload/Cargo is the weight or load your truck can take or vertical weight. This includes body weight, stuff in the truck, stuff in the bed, your weight distribution hitch, and the hitch/ball weight from the trailer. If the vehicle can handle the total payload/cargo weight; more often than not it can probably tow it.

                            Originally posted by Marco View Post
                            The 2021 Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost with Max Tow package claims it can pull 14,000 pounds which is pretty amazing. From what I can tell on the Ford site, the ball weight for the 2021 V6 Ecoboost with the max tow package is only 500 pounds, but I've heard it could go higher with a weight distribution hitch. Do any of you guys know where I can find the exact max rating for that F150 with a distribution hitch? I've looked at all the ford towing PDF guides, but couldn't figure it out.
                            There is a ton of bad misinformation from people and the internet about weight distribution hitches. With a good one, it will have built in sway control (or that can be added), but this hitch distributes the weight. Weight distribution hitches do not enable you to tow more, they do not increase your cargo/payload rating. I cannot stress the previous enough. What a weight distribution hitch does is level the trailer and attempt to level out the truck. A level load is much safer. Squatting the back of a truck means less steering and less braking from the front wheels.

                            You truck has a total payload/cargo rating (max weight - empty weight) and the Ford's usually have a sticker inside the driver door that does this math for you and tells you the payload/cargo capacity. In addition to the max payload/cargo rating each axel, wheel, and tires have these ratings.

                            Again, weight distribution hitches do not increase this payload capacity. By leveling the load, they may in theory reduce the weight on the ball. But, you need to use the hitch weight or the 15% of total load # as that number. What I mean by it may reduce weight at the ball....a physical example....if two men are carrying a table on level ground - who carries more weight? In theory they are carrying the same load. Take the same two men with the same load and put them on the stairs. Who is carrying more weight now? The guy at the bottom.

                            Hope this helps.
                            2020 Imagine 2400BH
                            2017 Ford F350 Platinum FX4/4x4 SuperCrew 6.7L V8 Diesel 9' Bed SRW, Leveled + Airbags

                            Our Mods

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                            • #15
                              bellis Thanks so much for the great info. The horizontal-vertical thing was really smart and I hadn't heard it before. Given your experience, do you think I could get away with towing a 9,995 pound Reflection 297 with a Ford F150 V6 Ecoboost which has 14,000 tow capacity (1,400 hitch weight). I would definitely get a weight distribution hitch with sway control as you mention. Thanks for your thoughts.

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