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**ncitro** · 04-06-2021, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by J & J Bumblebee View Post

Hi Bob,

Thank you. I guessed at my wife's weight and came up with 7370 for the gross trailer weight and 920 for the tongue weight. There's a Cat Scale nearby that I'll use and get another measurement.

I think I'm well within the towing limits for the truck. It does tow nicely.

John

Wise not to ask lol. By those numbers you should be good. Your trailer weight is 7,280 (6350+920). That means your pin weight is 12.5% of your trailer weight which is right in the sweet spot to manage sway.

**Cate&Rob** · 04-07-2021, 07:17 AM

Salty_NewEnglander
Hi Kevin,

Timbrens? Anyone?

We took Kevin's request for information way off course (like that has never happened before

) and delved into everything from hockey teams to payload and tongue weight. All good discussion, but we should try to get back to Kevin's original question.

Rob

**J & J Bumblebee** · 04-07-2021, 07:49 AM

Sorry about that.

I have used airbags on my 2014 Tacoma. My son-in-law and I installed them and I took the truck to an 'off road' shop to install the compressor. I towed the Jayco 26BH with it a few times and it did improve the ride quite a bit.

Towing the Winnebago Micro Minnie was a breeze compared to the Jayco which was 1,500 pounds heavier and 10 feet longer.

Having something that was adjustable made sense to me.

John

**ncitro** · 04-07-2021, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

Salty_NewEnglander
Hi Kevin,

Timbrens? Anyone?

We took Kevin's request for information way off course (like that has never happened before

) and delved into everything from hockey teams to payload and tongue weight. All good discussion, but we should try to get back to Kevin's original question.

Rob

I vote airbags. I’ve done two sets. On my old F250 I put Firestone bags in and an airlift wireless compressor, and in my buddies class C we did airlift bags and an airlift compressor. Both installed pretty easily and we were happy. Bags will give you the ability to adjust the ride, crucial for a tow vehicle unless you only tow the same trailer and never drive it empty. I tried to convince my buddy to go with Timbrins on his C, since his weight probably doesn’t change much but after seeing mine he still wanted the airbags.

**Salty_NewEnglander** · 04-08-2021, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by ncitro View Post

I vote airbags. I’ve done two sets. On my old F250 I put Firestone bags in and an airlift wireless compressor, and in my buddies class C we did airlift bags and an airlift compressor. Both installed pretty easily and we were happy. Bags will give you the ability to adjust the ride, crucial for a tow vehicle unless you only tow the same trailer and never drive it empty. I tried to convince my buddy to go with Timbrins on his C, since his weight probably doesn’t change much but after seeing mine he still wanted the airbags.

NIce, sounds like airbags are the way to go. Just don't want to invest the $1000 now when I'm trying to get an F250 next year. Surprised the F250 still needed airbags towing with the additional payload capacity.

**ncitro** · 04-08-2021, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Salty_NewEnglander View Post

NIce, sounds like airbags are the way to go. Just don't want to invest the $1000 now when I'm trying to get an F250 next year. Surprised the F250 still needed airbags towing with the additional payload capacity.

For what it is worth, my 250 was a 2012, and had noticeable squat with my 28bh. When I got my 2019 350 with the same trailer it had squat as well but the truck came from the factory with a “rake” when unloaded. This put the bed noticeably higher than the front when unloaded. I actually replaced my rear 4” spacers with 2” 250 spacers to lower the bed height, and now it tows about level with no bags. The 350 is a long bed, but I don’t think that affects it. I have heard that the 2020 and later have a lower bed height from the factory but I haven’t seen one up close to verify.

Also worth noting that a diesel 250 can sometimes actually have less payload than a 150 due to the weight of great Diesel engine. If you’re looking at an upgrade skip the 250 and go straight to a 350. Pretty much the same cost and way more payload.

**Salty_NewEnglander** · 04-08-2021, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by ncitro View Post

For what it is worth, my 250 was a 2012, and had noticeable squat with my 28bh. When I got my 2019 350 with the same trailer it had squat as well but the truck came from the factory with a “rake” when unloaded. This put the bed noticeably higher than the front when unloaded. I actually replaced my rear 4” spacers with 2” 250 spacers to lower the bed height, and now it tows about level with no bags. The 350 is a long bed, but I don’t think that affects it. I have heard that the 2020 and later have a lower bed height from the factory but I haven’t seen one up close to verify.

Also worth noting that a diesel 250 can sometimes actually have less payload than a 150 due to the weight of great Diesel engine. If you’re looking at an upgrade skip the 250 and go straight to a 350. Pretty much the same cost and way more payload.

We will miss driving our F150 on road trips getting 24 mpg on the highway (not towing).

**ncitro** · 04-08-2021, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Salty_NewEnglander View Post

We will miss driving our F150 on road trips getting 24 mpg on the highway (not towing).

What are these road trips not towing you speak of lol.

Seriously this was always an easy decision for me since my truck towed 90% off the time (either the camper, a 10k cargo trailer for work, or a 7k snowmobile trailer), otherwise it would certainly be a more difficult decision.

**Cate&Rob** · 04-08-2021, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Salty_NewEnglander View Post

We will miss driving our F150 on road trips getting 24 mpg on the highway (not towing).

This is the essence of why some of us push an F150 to its limits (which it is capable of) to tow the RV. For us, almost 80% of the miles on the truck are "non-towing". I know that for many who camp locally and a few weekends a year, 98% of the miles on the truck are "non-towing".

The 2021 F150 Hybrid looks pretty interesting for an RV hauler. Likely to be expensive and I don't know if this is compatible with HDPP but all kinds of towing torque and the ability to generate a lot of 120V power. Also, significant improvement to the already good non-towing MPG.

Rob

**howson** · 04-08-2021, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Salty_NewEnglander View Post

Surprised the F250 still needed airbags towing with the additional payload capacity.

One of the reasons I'd consider the Ram with that OEM self-leveling airbag system. Way cool and useful feature. (Are you listening, Ford?)

**Salty_NewEnglander** · 04-09-2021, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post

Hi Kevin,

I can't offer an opinion on the Timbrens, but I can endorse the airbags on an F150.

I installed the Airlift kit (specifically for F150 - which went well) and the remotely controlled on-board air compressor. This allows me to tune the suspension from the drivers seat for towing, not towing, road conditions, etc. I do not use the airbags to lift the back of the truck more than about 1/2" at 30 psi when towing our Reflection 5th wheel, but this noticeably stabilizes the back of the truck. I have cranked them up to 100 psi (just to see how this would look) and there is a lot of lift capability there is you wanted to use it.

Timbrens are a "one size fits all" jounce bumper replacement . . . so, if this helps your situation, great. If not, you have no adjustability.

The $200 solution vs the $1000 solution . . .as you say.

Rob

Looked at the 2021 F150 V-6 Hybrid last night online. When you add the hybrid you cannot add a 36 gallon gas tank or the HDPP. I can't imagine having the smaller gas tank and stopping every couple hours for gas while towing the trailer.

**Guest** · 04-09-2021, 08:03 AM

The chassis can only carry so much weight so with the hybrid, the extra weight for the battery, motorized transmission, inverter, hybrid controller etc must be accounted for. While the hybrid system will provide power like a generator would during camping, at highway cruise it will do little for you while towing.

Jim

**Cate&Rob** · 04-09-2021, 08:39 AM

Salty_NewEnglander Guest

I knew that an HDPP Hybrid was "too good to be true" . . . thanks for the research. Jim will likely remember when GM tried this "motorized transmission" idea, many years ago. A lot of complication, but did provide extra torque on launch.

Just to clarify . . . I do understand that a big "simple technology" gasoline V8 has a lot of benefits. Both GM and Ford now offer this in their bigger trucks. At the time I bought the Ecoboost, the gasoline engines in the bigger trucks were very anemic. The only way to get reasonable power was to spend another $10K (plus ongoing extra maintenance, regeneration complication, reduction in payload due to weight of powertrain, etc) for the diesel with way more torque than is needed.

Rob

**Jlawles2** · 04-09-2021, 08:52 AM

Right now Ram is offering an eTorque transmission. Basically its an electric motor built into the transmission. Battery pack behind rear seat. Extra weight just kills payload capacity and only available with select engine / transmission configurations.

To me its one more thing that stands a chance for meltdown in an already complex computer controlled nightmare (oh yeah its supposed to be called a TRUCK). I'd hate for the battery to do something stupid like overcharge, over discharge, or try to provide too much amperage and decide to become a metal oxide fire.

**Guest** · 04-09-2021, 08:55 AM

I worked on the GM 2 mode hybrid for 2008 and they were very nice with 23mpg HWY fuel economy out of a 6.0L V8. But with a recession, cheap fuel, and the high cost of a hybrid back then, people simply were not interested as they are today.
Today, a DI engine or Turbo DI with current battery technology (we used nickel metal hydride back then) and lower cost, the benefits can be realized. Except for highway towing then and now.

Auto industry BMS systems are far more advanced that what we have in our drop in batteries. Heated and cooled to provide stable power.

Jim

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Timbrens worth it - F150 towing 2800BH

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