Announcement

**Cate&Rob** · 10-04-2021, 06:54 PM

kdocker

You may be beyond the payload capability of your truck. The airbags will help to mask this, but it may be difficult to balance the rest of the rig. What is the payload on the tire information label on the drivers door? The line referencing “weight of contents and occupants should never exceed ???”.

Rob

**RJAPCOK** · 10-04-2021, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by kdocker View Post

OK here's my set up

When fully loaded with the trike and other stuff I've got the trailer and truck level - verified via measuring the front and rear fenders. I connect the hitch, air up the bags and connect the weight distribution. Which is the order others have recommended. Below are the CAT scale with and without the trailer connected. Unfortunately I don't have a tongue weight. I picked up my new Sherline by the top and it came apart and spilled the internal oil. Ugh! I have to refill but didn't have that ability when I was at the CAT scales.

Truck ONLY:
- Steer Axle: 4900
- Drive Axle: 3620
- Gross: 8520

Truck + Trailer
- Steer Axle: 4520
- Drive Axle: 5680
- Trailer Axle (tandem): 10740
- Gross: 20,940

- So right off the bat I see that the Steer Axle has lost 380 lbs
- Next I see that the ratio or balance between steer and drive has sifted dramatically

This 30G has a huge garage of 20', which is in part why we like it. Of course there is a slide in part of that area so you don't have the full width of the area. I use the back section of the garage to load the trike.

I start to get sway at about 58-60 Mph or when I hit an uneven roads

The hype on the Propride is that its suppose to effectively give a bumper pull handling like its a 5th wheel by projecting the pivot point to the truck axles. I have another Propride that I use at work but we are not towing this much weight.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated - especially from any 30G owners struggling with their loaded toys.

I can't offer up any suggestions, but I wanted to mention that you DO HAVE the hitch weight. Just subtract the weight on the truck axles without the trailer, from the weight on the truck axles with the trailer. The difference is the load that the truck is carrying when the trailer is attached. In your case that comes out the 1680 lbs. (10,200 - 8520)

The weight of the trailer is the 1680 lbs carried by the truck plus the weight on the trailer axles, in this case, that is 12,420 lbs. The 1680 lbs tongue weight is about 13.5% of the trailer weight which puts it in the desirable range.

That's not much help but it's all I have to offer.

Bob

**kdocker** · 10-04-2021, 08:58 PM

Rob, a quick looks at Edmunds and it says its 2,975 lbs for my truck configuration. I’ll double check my sticker tomorrow. The passenger part is clear but what items go in to the content? Would the tongue weight PLUS anything in my truck bed make up that content number? Let’s say I had exceeded that number, how would that contribute to the sway of the toy hauler?

**kdocker** · 10-04-2021, 09:04 PM

Bob, appreciate the manual calculation. I was thinking I could manually calculate the tongue weight but didn’t know for sure if any other physics could be involved. This is my first trailer / toy hauler. I’ve had class C and class A Motorhomes for years and have never had to deal with this trailer sway issue. I just sold my 02 Travel Supreme where you could put anything behind it and it pulled it like nothing was there.

**acoleman43** · 10-04-2021, 11:43 PM

Disclaimer: I'm no expert

We have a 21G with no toy. Typical TW is about 1250#. Trailer axle is typically 7000 to 7500#. TW is between 15-20%. We use the 1200# Equal-I-zer hitch. We have never experienced sway even at 80 mph (would not recommend).

With your hitch, I'm surprised you have sway at all. You have a very nice WD hitch system.

A couple things you may consider looking at:

-When we originally bought out trailer we did not have airbags on the truck. When we installed the airbags, I had to make some adjustments on the WD hitch to accommodate the increased ride height. There should be good tension on the WD bars

-If you have time, tow the trailer without the Goldwing. See if sway is reduced or gone. This would tell you that more TW is needed when you have the Goldwing in the trailer.

-I agree with Rob, your truck may be over capacity. GM typically limits TW to 10% of tow rating. In your case that would be a 1300# TW. Regarding payload, each individual truck is different. You need to find out what the payload capacity is for your truck. The internet says the payload for my truck is 3120-4150 (2020 F250). However, most F250's have a real payload of 2300-2800. It is rare to find one with a payload over 3000#. The door sticker should tell you what the payload is for your specific truck.

Remember I am no expert or engineer, but I've seen a few others with 30G and 31G who have reported sway issues with a toy in back. My thought is that these towable toy haulers require much more than 10% TW...my guess is around 15+%??? perhaps GD should consider moving the axels toward the rear of the trailer slightly???

**Cate&Rob** · 10-05-2021, 06:10 AM

kdocker
Hi Kelly,

You are receiving good advice from all participants in this discussion (in my opinion).

From your numbers, you have significantly unloaded the front axle of the truck when the trailer is attached. This relates to my question about payload and airbags. You may be able to make the truck look level with the rear airbags, but the hitch is still not transferring enough weight forward in the truck. Most diesel 3/4 ton trucks of a 2015 vintage (particularly a heavily optioned Denali) will have an available payload closer to 2000 lbs. Bringing the weight forward in the trailer will always help . . . as long as this does not overload the hitch weight and the capability of the WDH.

Rob

**familytruckster4** · 10-05-2021, 02:41 PM

What does Propride say ? You might want to pick their brains on this one.

**kdocker** · 10-05-2021, 08:26 PM

Day 2 follow up.
1. My truck, per my door sticker has a 2241lbs payload. Not sure why so different from the Edmunds unless they didn’t account for my Diesel engine. Anyway, going to go with the sticker on MY truck.
2. And this part I feel like a bit of an idiot, mainly because I have not been thinking about payload and its always there - I have a 30” truck saddle tool box in my truck bed. Specs say its 102lbs. Plus all the tools (several), I’m going to guess 400lbs, so I guessing a total of 500lbs against my payload allotment. YES, I’m going to unload the toolbox and reweight the truck at CAT scales.
3. With my current TW @ 1680 and a 500lbs box with my payload @ 2241lbs that only leaves me 61lbs to max payload. Then I have to add the wife, another 150 lbs and that leaves me at 89 Over max payload.

Sooooo if I move the trike forward inside of the toy hauler I have to hope for a miracle with little add to the TW AND that it helps to stabilize the sway. Am I thinking of this correctly? I’m just having a hard time getting my head around that my truck isn’t “big” enough to pull a trailer like this. AND how do I break it to the wife that I’ll NEED a bigger truck.

4. How far over would you guys be willing to push the payload limit? 100lbs? 5% More?

5. Removing the tool box when I tow could have a positive impact to payload, steer axle, and drive axle - I get it, but a pain in the A$& to unload each time I go out camping and riding - probably 20 weekends a year.

6. I sent the same info I posted here to ProPride last nite but haven’t heard back yet. I expect Sean will reply as he has always been responsive. At a current TW of 1680 and expecting more I’m interested in seeing how they respond given their hitch is 1400 # rated. I do have the 2.5” stinger (GM went with 2.5” receivers on 2500s in 2015) and the ProPride newly designed weight distribution jacks. Neither increased ProPride’s 1400 rating.

**Jlawles2** · 10-05-2021, 10:00 PM

kdocker I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that tool box and 400 lbs of stuff is really helping you. Yes it adds some weight to the rear of the truck, but at the same time, it's a giant weight offset to the other side of the rear axle helping keep the front down.

I'm pushing it a bit on the 5er that I am over gross, but under axles. Check the rear axle capacity (the 3500 used the same leafs as the 2500's) and as long as you are under axle, I'd consider running it. THIS IS A PERSONAL CHOICE TO BE OVER GROSS AND CONTINUE TO DRIVE.

**acoleman43** · 10-05-2021, 11:15 PM

kdocker I FEEL YOUR PAIN. When we bought our recent trailer....AFTER we bought our recent trailer....I realized I was an idiot and needed a new TV. The wife was not happy...I repeat, the wife was NOT happy.

Good luck. Please let us know what ProPride tells you.

**kdocker** · 10-06-2021, 05:58 PM

Front axle 4400#
Rear axle 6200#

I went to GM’s technical site and looked up my truck. They have no version of my truck with a payload a low as my stickered weight. The very lowest they list is 2628#, and my actual configuration is listed at 2793#

Their configurations included model, cab size, bed size, engine type

Why would there be such a big difference between the factory posted specs and the sticker on the truck?

If I can slide that trike forward and get the sway under control, I’m thinking I’d rather be a little over payload (I’d stay under the factory stated payload), and buy a stronger hitch with weight distribution if the ProPride can’t handle it.

**RJAPCOK** · 10-06-2021, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by kdocker View Post

Front axle 4400#
Rear axle 6200#

I went to GM’s technical site and looked up my truck. They have no version of my truck with a payload a low as my stickered weight. The very lowest they list is 2628#, and my actual configuration is listed at 2793#

Their configurations included model, cab size, bed size, engine type

Why would there be such a big difference between the factory posted specs and the sticker on the truck?

If I can slide that trike forward and get the sway under control, I’m thinking I’d rather be a little over payload (I’d stay under the factory stated payload), and buy a stronger hitch with weight distribution if the ProPride can’t handle it.

Do you have a Diesel engine? The Diesel engine adds a lot of "curb weight". Payload capacity is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating minus the Curb Weight. Payload capacity is also reduced by any equipment added to the truck such as your tool box.

As an example, my 2019 Model 2500 HD has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 10,000 lbs and a "curb weight" of 8050 lbs. That leaves me 1950 lbs of payload capacity. I have seen published specs on a similar truck to mine, equipped with a gas engine, that showed the payload capacity was over 2900 lbs.

The bottom line is that on most new trucks (and cars) there is a sticker that states something to the effect of "the weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed XXXX lbs". That is the number for that particular vehicle, as configured.

I hope this is helpful.

Bob

**Cate&Rob** · 10-06-2021, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by kdocker View Post

Why would there be such a big difference between the factory posted specs and the sticker on the truck?

Hi Kelly,

FWIW . . . your situation is exactly the same as everyone else. I have never seen any truck beyond a bare bones regular cab work truck come anywhere close to the "published" payload. What's in the published numbers is a theoretical calculation created by adding up the sum of all the parts of the truck. What's on the door label is a measured number for that exact truck.

I have recently researched and purchased a new truck. The dealership could not show me a truck exactly like the one I was ordering. So . . . I looked at similar trucks and compared door labels to published data. On average, the door labels were 30% lower than the published numbers. Your truck is 24% lower than the Edmunds number . . . you have come out better than most, but I expect the GM number would be even more "optimistic" than the Edmunds data. BTW . . . my new truck comes very close to that "30% less than advertised" payload.

Until very recently, 3/4 ton trucks were artificially limited to 10,000 lb GVWR. So (as previously noted) payload was 10,000 lbs - truck weight. With most diesel 3/4 ton trucks coming in at around 8,000 lbs, this leaves payload at 2000 lbs. I can't count the number of times someone would come over to me in a new campground to tell me that I really shouldn't be towing a 5th wheel with an F150. This would lead to a payload discussion. (Most owners have no idea that their payload is on the door label.) These conversations would end with their wide-eyed realization that the problem was not my small 5th wheel and my HDPP F150 (with higher payload than most 3/4 ton trucks) . . . it was their much larger 5th wheel and their F250 with no where near enough payload. But, I digress . . .

You are still within reach of making this work. You need to get the WDH adjusted to increase the front axle weight back closer to its non-towing weight. Make sure that you do not go over your rear axle capacity. Air bags can help, but they can't change the weight being carried by each axle and tires.

Keep at it and keep us updated on what you learn.

Rob

**Guest** · 10-07-2021, 08:06 AM

Move the garage weight as far forward as possible to shift mass toward the tongue. Crank up the bars and the bags to move as much mass as possible to the front of the truck. Do not work toward the truck being level but rather try to achieve a stance toward the unloaded position of the truck to pitch and transfer weight forward. Visit the CAT scales to see where you are with the axle limits and see how this handles.

Unrelated directly but relevant in theory.....I have my half ton sitting loaded with bars and bags to the TV unloaded stance with a level trailer and it tows superbly where even truck suck is barely noticeable.

May be worth a try where a re-adjustment would need to be made when the garage is empty.

Jim

Announcement

GD 30G Toy Hauler with Propride hitch - still have sway

GD 30G Toy Hauler with Propride hitch - still have sway

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