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  • #16
    KrustyKush I worked on the volt and the Cadillac ELR which unfortunately was killed in its cradle from over pricing. The Volt at 40mpg on gas alone is a testament to its design since its heavy.

    Towing and electric do not mix since longer ranges requires more battery which is heavy and kills towing capacity.

    Jim

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post

      I believe you meant to state Upshifting after revving? Paddle shifters only recently have been able to force an upshift depending how they are calibrated where this function is mostly reserved to performance cars. Also if the ECM and TCM is calling for a lower gear, it will be more efficient than lugging so let the truck perform the way is was calibrated to perform.
      You did not state the speed you tow at as well where the faster your tow, the more fuel will be required to offset wind resistance. I tow at 62 mph on average as an example. Also winter grade fuel and cold conditions will result in the 02 system biasing rich since oxygenated fuel will burn leaner to aid in cold starts. Cold air increases wind resistance and cold fluids increased friction. So cold starts will destroy your average economy as posted on the DIC so reset this once warmed up and on the road to get a better reading on a longer trip. Or better yet, hand calculate the fuel economy but be prepared it may be worse. Final drive is another factor.

      There is one more that you may want to try. Before your next trip, run the tank as low as possible and then fill up with 89 octane fuel or 2 points higher than recommended. Read your owners manual on the recommended fuel and what is recommended for towing. Most will not try a higher octane fuel where most of the time its not needed but if there is variation in engine build or a lack luster calibration, the math may prove that a higher octane fuel will save you money over regular while towing for the reasons stated. Use tow haul as well but keep in mind, this will hold shift points longer. Not an issue.

      So after stating all this stuff, 10 mpg is not far off but if you slow down, try the higher octane fuel you may pick up 1-2 mpg. Otherwise fuel economy will return in warmer weather on summer fuel and with warm fluids.

      Jim

      Thank you Jim! I will try the higher octane fuel and aim for warmer weather of course!

      We are currently heading back into sub zero temps and 30 mph wind gusts…after spending a few weeks in the South…I don’t want to go back!
      Los Fragosos
      2021 Ram 1500 Laramie
      2021 Grand Design Imagine 2400BH
      2021 Winnebago View 24j

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      • #18
        Originally posted by KrustyKush View Post
        My 2021 Ram 5.7 gas routinely touches 5k rpm when pulling hard, as in getting on the interstate highway, or pulling up a grade. I don't worry about this, because this engine is designed for such operation. I say "touches" 5k rpm, because it doesn't stay there for very long. I would agree that sustained operation of your motor at or above 5k rpm would probably not be a good idea. Won't hurt the motor, but will probably increase the wear and tear factors. In fact, many people believe that getting the motor "up there" now and again is good for it. Normal operation not pulling a trailer or a load, 5k rpm is hard to get to without breaking the law.

        As for fuel mileage, we don't worry much about that either. We get around 10 mpg pulling the trailer, and closer to 18 mpg without the trailer. That's the cost of the big vehicle and the work that it does. If we want better efficiency we use our Chevy Volt which hardly ever uses any gasoline whatever, and gets almost 40 mpg when it does. But the Volt won't pull a trailer. Therefore...
        Thanks! We also have the 5.7 hemi, and while I knew it wouldn’t be efficient when towing I was getting much better gas mileage in my summer trips than now in the colder temps, thought maybe it was something I was doing or the truck overworking, which I’ve read in some RAM forums being an issue. In an earlier post on this thread, Jim gives some possible solutions that I will try out next season…sadly we’re on our last night of this one ☹️
        Los Fragosos
        2021 Ram 1500 Laramie
        2021 Grand Design Imagine 2400BH
        2021 Winnebago View 24j

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        • #19
          Those with a scan tool that can see if the system is in open loop can slow down to just the point where they are cruising in closed loop fuel control. This will be the highest speed you can run with reasonable fuel economy. Factors of high speed (which increases load) will result in either engine component protection and/or catalyst protection. We add fuel which lowers combustion temperature to achieve these protection measures. So this fuel gulping will cost plenty to get there a bit sooner.

          This of coarse is for gas although some factors can affect diesel economy in the winter as well.

          Jim

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MidwestCamper View Post
            Those with a scan tool that can see if the system is in open loop can slow down to just the point where they are cruising in closed loop fuel control.
            This thread is drifting all over the place...hopefully the OP doesn't mind. GDPadventures

            Jim, I know you're a GM guy but any idea what PID and signal I'd monitor on my Ford to see what you're writing about? I understand (conceptually) your comment, but no idea of how to actually view/monitor. I do have a scan tool and ForScan Lite on my phone.
            Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

            2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

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            • #21
              Originally posted by howson View Post

              This thread is drifting all over the place...hopefully the OP doesn't mind. GDPadventures

              Jim, I know you're a GM guy but any idea what PID and signal I'd monitor on my Ford to see what you're writing about? I understand (conceptually) your comment, but no idea of how to actually view/monitor. I do have a scan tool and ForScan Lite on my phone.
              Howard,

              I believe the low economy topic is ok where the OP is most likely just reaping the repercussions of winter towing. Summer can be bad also for high speed or headwinds or knock in gasoline apps.

              For your diesel, many issues are similar such as cold air which causes high drag, cold fluids which result in higher friction (switch to full synthetic), higher rolling resistance on cold tires, and for you, lower cetane winter diesel which has less energy per unit. You would not experience enrichement for combustion cooling where diesels already run cooler than gasoline applications.

              So there would be no PID for diesel and I do not recall the PID for gas. Might be able to find it.

              One simple way to see this is the required torque to travel at a specific speed (on level ground) in summer versus winter.

              Jim

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              • #22
                The other factor which I will reluctantly mention is that the hemi does not use direct injection which provides huge torque increases at low RPM. Its a great engine so not trying to spark a debate but port fuel injection can deliver higher peak torque and Hp based on many factors but DI results in a very flat broad torque curve which benefits towing. So this loss would not be tied to seasons.

                As an example, my DI 5.3L has the identical torque curve of the old port fuel 6.0L HD GM engine. I can add all the negative stuff on DI valve coking and expensive DI injector failure so there are trade offs.

                Another tip on the high sustained RPM is that the OP can back off the accelerator pedal a bit to allow an upshift then slowly roll back in. This will unthrottle (higher MAP) the engine and can provide better economy as long as the engine is not in enrichment as described. I use this technique on my truck for on-ramps and grades at times.

                Jim
                Last edited by Guest; 01-19-2022, 09:21 AM.

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                • #23
                  Just as another data point, after towing several spring/fall trips back and forth from Canada to Florida, with the Ecoboost gasoline engine (always on premium fuel when towing), the fuel consumption was always considerably greater at the cold end of the trip than at the warm end.

                  Rob
                  Cate & Rob
                  (with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
                  2015 Reflection 303RLS
                  2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
                  Bayham, Ontario, Canada

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cate&Rob View Post
                    Just as another data point, after towing several spring/fall trips back and forth from Canada to Florida, with the Ecoboost gasoline engine (always on premium fuel when towing), the fuel consumption was always considerably greater at the cold end of the trip than at the warm end.

                    Rob
                    You will find the fuel usage difference, re:cold temps, with the diesel much more dramatic.
                    2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
                    Electricians were created because engineers need heroes too....

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