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**Jlawles2** · 04-02-2021, 11:05 PM

Charging to de-wintrize sounds like a load of crap to me. Now if they wanted to charge you to re winterize it after the PDI, that might make more sense.

How do they plan to do a PDI without water????? That's part of the PDI process to show HWH and all fixtures work. You might get them with that question.

**Sailor_Joe** · 04-02-2021, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Charging to de-wintrize sounds like a load of crap to me. Now if they wanted to charge you to re winterize it after the PDI, that might make more sense.

How do they plan to do a PDI without water????? That's part of the PDI process to show HWH and all fixtures work. You might get them with that question.

I know, which is why I'll be speaking with the sales manager. So far I think this has just been my request passed on by my somewhat junior sales rep to the service manager, and the service manager pushed back. I'll see what management says. In my email to my rep I'd already laid it out: "We really need to have the RV dewinterized prior to PDI so we can inspect the water and plumbing systems." and "I don’t see how we can do a PDI without being able to test the water and plumbing systems."

Sigh....

- Joe

**Tom_378MBS** · 04-03-2021, 12:10 AM

We just had a similar experience. We had a good PDI, technician was very helpful but they don't de-winterize at this time of year so the water systems are still a question mark. We're not new RVer's so didn't really need to see how they worked but it would have be a much better experience if we'd seen them work before they deliver to the site.

**Jlawles2** · 04-03-2021, 12:31 AM

I wonder if the dealer would object to you bringing your own water to test the system. You only need about 15-20 gallons. Scanning the manual, using the winterization valve or by putting water into the fresh water holding tank, you should be able to test the plumbing system. The manual can be located here: https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...owners-manuals

As for dumping, since it will all be clean water, when you get home, empty into 5 gallon bucket and pour down the toilet. It is a new never used unit, so there will be no waste in any of the tanks.

I think part of the 145 would be sanitization of the tank as outlined in the GD owners manual. Its a lengthy time consuming process and requires less than 1 gallon of bleach. Min set time is 3 hrs after you fill the fresh water tank and flush / fill the lines.

**Sailor_Joe** · 04-03-2021, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

I wonder if the dealer would object to you bringing your own water to test the system. You only need about 15-20 gallons. Scanning the manual, using the winterization valve or by putting water into the fresh water holding tank, you should be able to test the plumbing system. The manual can be located here: https://www.granddesignrv.com/owner-...owners-manuals

As for dumping, since it will all be clean water, when you get home, empty into 5 gallon bucket and pour down the toilet. It is a new never used unit, so there will be no waste in any of the tanks.

I think part of the 145 would be sanitization of the tank as outlined in the GD owners manual. Its a lengthy time consuming process and requires less than 1 gallon of bleach. Min set time is 3 hrs after you fill the fresh water tank and flush / fill the lines.

That's a great suggestion. I agree, the $145 charge is probably for the time it takes for the sanitization process. I could skip that and sanitize after I get it home. I mainly want to test the systems. Bringing my own water or theirs to fill the fresh tank enough to do my plumbing test, but dewinterizing brings up a question. What do folks do with the antifreeze in the lines? Do you all collect it via the low point drains for disposal? If that's the method, it would be better for me to have the dealer do this. They can skip the sanitizing, just drain the antifreeze and either they or I add fresh water to the tank for testing.

Assuming they can dump the antifreeze, I'd need to make sure the water heater drain plug is in place, and moved the three hwh valves out of bypass mode. If the hot water heater is a Suburban, make sure it has its anode in place (with thread sealant). I don't know yet if my 2600RB has the Suburban or the Dometic water heater, Suburban has an anode, Dometic doesn't. Make sure the caps are on the low point drains, make sure the fresh water drain gate valve is closed (as well as black and gray), and then gravity fill the fresh tank with 15-20 gallons. The 2600 hwh tank is 6 gallons. I need to make sure the hwh tank is full, not exactly sure how but I can ask the tech. At that point I should be able to turn on the water pump and open faucets to bleed air out of the system.

Or just get the sales manager or their boss to override the service manager. Much simpler :-)

Joe

**Dennis66** · 04-03-2021, 06:53 AM

I took delivery of my 303rls 3 weeks ago and they filled tank so doing the PDI I was able to see everything work including the tankless hot water. After the PDI was complete they re-winterized the rig for me all at NO cost. I would think these dealers would do that being you just spent $$$$$$ on the rig

**Country Campers** · 04-03-2021, 07:36 AM

I would stop at wally world and get a couple gallons of RV antifreeze. Have the dealer provide water for you to do the complete PDI , checking all systems , and when done and satisfied have them teach you how to winterize your unit with your own antifreeze , if you want it re-winterized. How to winterize would be part of the PDI , in my opinion. Doing this they will not have any reason to charge you , which I think is wrong in the beginning.

Brian

**Jlawles2** · 04-03-2021, 10:00 AM

RV Antifreeze is non toxic. It's designed to be fed to into a house sewer system. Most of the contents of RV antifreeze are food grade glycol and few other things. So disposal down the toilet or bathtub is an acceptable method for disposal.

**Sailor_Joe** · 04-03-2021, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

RV Antifreeze is non toxic. It's designed to be fed to into a house sewer system. Most of the contents of RV antifreeze are food grade glycol and few other things. So disposal down the toilet or bathtub is an acceptable method for disposal.

So rv antifreeze typically propylene glycol vs the auto antifreeze ethylene glycol. So no need to drain and collect, I can drain it into the gray water tank and dispose at an rv dump station if need be. That will make it simpler. I just need water for the dewinterization (enough for fresh tank and hot water heater tank) and don't need to worry about collecting / disposing of the antifreeze from the lines. Does that sound right?

Thanks again,
Joe

**Sailor_Joe** · 04-03-2021, 12:11 PM

I spoke with the dealer sales manager. Sales will cover the charge. It's an internal cost accounting thing, which is what I suspected (service is a cost center and has to charge someone). Also this time of year can be difficult to time de-winterization. My take? A more experienced sales rep would have known this and talked with their manager first about getting the charge covered. She'll learn, everyone has to gain experience somehow. Meanwhile I've read up on the winterization/dewinterization process more thoroughly than I had, feel like I have it figured out pretty well now.

Happy camping!
Joe

**Jlawles2** · 04-03-2021, 01:10 PM

Sailor_Joe The only reason for dumping the tanks has more to do with the opportunity for a freeze. I try to keep my tanks empty during the winter (even though the minutes its typically below freezing here are less than 100 a year

) so as to not have to worry about them. I do blow out my water lines till there is no hit of moisture. Stop for a bit, then hit it again to ensure all the pooling water gets blown out. You may look into the same thing. Amazon has hose bib to air compressor fittings for this for cheap. I got the male and female ones so I can back purge water hoses if needed or back purge faucets if needed.

**Sailor_Joe** · 04-03-2021, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Jlawles2 View Post

Sailor_Joe The only reason for dumping the tanks has more to do with the opportunity for a freeze. I try to keep my tanks empty during the winter (even though the minutes its typically below freezing here are less than 100 a year

) so as to not have to worry about them. I do blow out my water lines till there is no hit of moisture. Stop for a bit, then hit it again to ensure all the pooling water gets blown out. You may look into the same thing. Amazon has hose bib to air compressor fittings for this for cheap. I got the male and female ones so I can back purge water hoses if needed or back purge faucets if needed.

Yep, we do this in Chicago area for in-ground sprinkler systems. Air compressor to blow out the water lines. I typically pay a service since it's cheap and they have a vary large truck mounted compressor. I'll try using my new Viair 400P-RVS next winter and will found out whether it will do the trick.

- Joe

**Cate&Rob** · 04-03-2021, 06:49 PM

Those of us who have dismantled our water systems, for rebuild or repair, have found a lot of water remaining in the low points even after blowing out the lines with air. Once a line is partially empty, the air passes over the remaining water. The lines to and from the water pump are particularly at risk because the pump is usually not run during “blowing out the lines” and won’t pump air very well anyway. Grand Design uses antifreeze in all trailers leaving the plants in the winter. There is a reason for this. I am sure they would use just air . . . if they thought this was sufficient.

Rob

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PDI without de-winterization? Your thoughts...

PDI without de-winterization? Your thoughts...

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