Furrion Air Conditioner Webinar (Notes and Response from LCI)

[howson]

I took the Lippert Technical Institute's Furrion Air Conditioner Webinar recently and sent in a few questions & critiques to the Institute. Kelly Ross, the head of the institute, called me and verbally provided answers to my questions. (The moderators had just met Kelly the week prior at the Institute so he knew who I was which was probably why he called me directly.)

The purpose of this post is to pass along to you what I now know.

First, the heavily criticized temperature sensor in the Air Distribution Box: as of February '22 production is moving the sensor to the thermostat. At this time there is no information on how that affects the wiring, if there will be a retrofit kit for older units, or how an owner can incorporate a new thermostat into an old Air Distribution Box (ADB). As long as there is no need to change the wire that runs from the ADB to the thermostat location, I think it will be an easy retrofit but I don't know that for sure.

Second, the Furrion has a remarkable 24 to 30 degree Delta T rating. (A "Delta T" is the temperature difference between what's being drawn into the unit and the temperature of the air coming out of the closest register.) Some here may remember that I'm a graduate of RVSA. At school we were taught that a good Delta T for a Duo-Therm is 18-25 degrees and for the Coleman 16-22 degrees. One reason for the increased efficiency of the Furrion is the dual-fan setup. There's a separate motor driving the fan for the condenser and a separate fan for the evaporator. All the units I've seen have a single motor driving both fans.

Personal opinion: I like the filter grill over the condenser.

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All pictures are from Lippert's webinar handout

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There's also a Universal Conversion Kit available so this unit can easily replace a Coleman or a Dometic. (Those two units pass 12v differently between the thermostat and ADB, so sometimes making a swap is not easy.)

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If / when I hear anything more about the new thermostat you can be sure that I'll post the information.

Howard

[AZMike]

Second, the Furrion has a remarkable 24 to 30 degree Delta T rating. (A "Delta T" is the temperature difference between what's being drawn into the unit and the temperature of the air coming out of the closest register.) Some here may remember that I'm a graduate of RVSA. At school we were taught that a good Delta T for a Duo-Therm is 18-25 degrees and for the Coleman 16-22 degrees. One reason for the increased efficiency of the Furrion is the dual-fan setup. There's a separate motor driving the fan for the condenser and a separate fan for the evaporator. All the units I've seen have a single motor driving both fans.Howard

Thanks for all the info, Howard. I always suspected that my Furrion was more efficient than other A/C's I had in other rigs. I guess it wasn't my imagination! I took and passed the same webinar last week, and must have missed that little tidbit about the Delta T rating.

[DarnDave]

howson any idea on how AC power usage compares? Do these use more power than say a Coleman unit?

[howson]

howson any idea on how AC power usage compares? Do these use more power than say a Coleman unit?

The Rated Load Amps (RLA) of the Furrion's compressor is in line with what I've seen on other units. Below is a comparison to an old Duo-Therm (Dometic) that for some reason I had in my archive.

<edited FLA per Curtis' note in post 15.>
Also, look for the Full Loaded Amps (FLA) on the fan and then, on the Furrion add together the FLA for both motors. (The Duo-Therm only has the one fan motor.)

I do not see a significant difference to account for the Delta T difference.

For those that don't know, LRA is the Lockup Rated Amps of the compressor.

<The following was added after a forum member kindly sent me a PM saying my original post was in error.>
From my school notes: Locked rotor amps. Also known as starting inrush current, it's the current you can expect under starting conditions when you apply full voltage

As the forum member noted in the PM he sent me, it's the LRA that is helped by devices like MicroAir's EasyStart.

[Jlawles2]

Does the Furrion AC have service ports? Nice to see that they put the design pressures on the system.

Looking at the Furrion, it appears that the 2 fans are 1/5 and 1/6 HP? This would be roughly equivalent to 1/3 HP.

On the Furrion I see a rating of 1,620 watts but when I add up the amperages I get 15.15A (1,742 watts).

Makes me wonder about some of the tag information provided by MFG.

[howson]

Does the Furrion AC have service ports? Nice to see that they put the design pressures on the system.

Those days are in the past, Joseph. The license required by the EPA, and the equipment required to capture and retain the refrigerant, is too onerous. Doesn't make economic sense for either the customer or the business (dealer or mobile tech) to try and service an RV air conditioner.

RVSA used to teach (and require securing of the license) to graduate, but again that's no longer the case.

[SDAxTwo]

I took the Lippert Technical Institute's Furrion Air Conditioner Webinar recently and sent in a few questions & critiques to the Institute. Kelly Ross, the head of the institute, called me and verbally provided answers to my questions. (The moderators had just met Kelly the week prior at the Institute so he knew who I was which was probably why he called me directly.)

The purpose of this post is to pass along to you what I now know.

First, the heavily criticized temperature sensor in the Air Distribution Box: as of February '22 production is moving the sensor to the thermostat. At this time there is no information on how that affects the wiring, if there will be a retrofit kit for older units, or how an owner can incorporate a new thermostat into an old Air Distribution Box (ADB). As long as there is no need to change the wire that runs from the ADB to the thermostat location, I think it will be an easy retrofit but I don't know that for sure.

Second, the Furrion has a remarkable 24 to 30 degree Delta T rating. (A "Delta T" is the temperature difference between what's being drawn into the unit and the temperature of the air coming out of the closest register.) Some here may remember that I'm a graduate of RVSA. At school we were taught that a good Delta T for a Duo-Therm is 18-25 degrees and for the Coleman 16-22 degrees. One reason for the increased efficiency of the Furrion is the dual-fan setup. There's a separate motor driving the fan for the condenser and a separate fan for the evaporator. All the units I've seen have a single motor driving both fans.

Personal opinion: I like the filter grill over the condenser.

---

All pictures are from Lippert's webinar handout

---

There's also a Universal Conversion Kit available so this unit can easily replace a Coleman or a Dometic. (Those two units pass 12v differently between the thermostat and ADB, so sometimes making a swap is not easy.)

---

---

If / when I hear anything more about the new thermostat you can be sure that I'll post the information.

Howard

Howard,

Any word on the new thermostat that may have the temp sensor built in?

Thanks,

Stephen

[Country Campers]

SDAxTwo

Stepehen,

Contact GD Customer Service with you VIN and they will help you with the thermostat issue. I believe that there is a new version out but I am not sure what they are doing for previous owners.

Brian

[howson]

Howard,

Any word on the new thermostat that may have the temp sensor built in?

Thanks,

Stephen

I'll ping Lippert to see if I can get any further information.

Howard

[SDAxTwo]

Just got off the phone with Grand Design Customer Service.

They are sending 2 new parts:

710402 - Zone Controller
710403 - Thermostat

The Customer Service Rep said that those are the new Furrion Part numbers to address the temperature issues with the A/C, and are not supposed to void the Furrion warranty like the Temp Sensor Relocation Kits were.

Stephen

[MK397THR]

Those days are in the past, Joseph. The license required by the EPA, and the equipment required to capture and retain the refrigerant, is too onerous. Doesn't make economic sense for either the customer or the business (dealer or mobile tech) to try and service an RV air conditioner.

RVSA used to teach (and require securing of the license) to graduate, but again that's no longer the case.

At least if it is the same as my section 609 certification, it doesn’t expire. And so far it is still valid for the R1234yf. The equipment is definitely cost prohibitive now, unless you are doing a lot of a/c work

[landonth@gmail.com]

Just got off the phone with Grand Design Customer Service.

They are sending 2 new parts:

710402 - Zone Controller
710403 - Thermostat

The Customer Service Rep said that those are the new Furrion Part numbers to address the temperature issues with the A/C, and are not supposed to void the Furrion warranty like the Temp Sensor Relocation Kits were.

Stephen

Hey Stephen,

I was wondering if you could provide more information about these parts and who you may have spoken to at Grand design? I emailed them today and was told that the temp sensor relocation kit would fix my issue. But the dealer doesn’t want to install it.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

[AZMike]

Hey Stephen,

I was wondering if you could provide more information about these parts and who you may have spoken to at Grand design? I emailed them today and was told that the temp sensor relocation kit would fix my issue. But the dealer doesn’t want to install it.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

I called Customer Service yesterday and asked for those two parts (710402 - Zone Controller and 710403 - Thermostat). I was told that their parts department still refers to these parts as the "Temperature Sensor Relocation Kit". They are sending them to me.

[SDAxTwo]

Hey Stephen,

I was wondering if you could provide more information about these parts and who you may have spoken to at Grand design? I emailed them today and was told that the temp sensor relocation kit would fix my issue. But the dealer doesn’t want to install it.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

I called on 5/16. Just the main number on the Customer Service line 574-825-9679 and chose the option to have them call me back. Waited about 20 min and they called me back.

I told the rep that I was having issues with the temperature control for my Furrion chill A/C. She told me they had just had a bulletin come down describing the new parts.

She also told me that the Temp Sensor Relocation kit was voiding the warranty from Furrion if it was installed. But, if it works, and there's not a future failure that would need a warranty claim, all would be ok.

I was not "told" this, but I did get the impression that if the "kit" was sent to you by Grand Design and there was a warranty issue that Grand Design was making it right and fixing or replacing the Furrion A/c at their cost though. If you purchased the relocation kit on your own though, I think you'd be on your own if there was a warranty issue with Furrion.

I have not received the new parts yet, and I suspect it will be a few weeks before I do. I will update this post if no one esle has about the new parts when they do arrive.

Stephen

[OffToHavasu]

Also, look for the Fan Loaded Amps (FLA) on the fan and then, on the Furrion add together the FLA for both motors. (The Duo-Therm only has the one fan motor.)

FLA is FULL LOAD AMPS. F.L.A. represents the amount of current the motor is designed to draw at the rated horsepower.