Slide Out Switch Inoperative

[howson]

Ready2Retire -- do all of your hydraulic slides deploy with just one switch? If I remember correctly, there's a manual valve that must be adjusted to disable an individual slide in the GD setup.

Will you please document the name of each output as shown on the OCTP (in the latching relay area) for outputs 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10? I'm very curious what they show on the screen.

Based on all that's been documented so far, I suspect LAT OUT 3 is tied to LATCH IN 1 and 2. Since you can deploy and retract using the OCTP but not the switch, that means those two inputs may be bad (as we've suspected all along). The key now is finding if any of the other input pairs, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, etc are not being used. Swap the wires from 1 and 2 to the unused pair, then program LAT OUT 3 to understand it is being controlled by the newly connected LATCH INs.

Hopefully that's enough info (that's correct?) to help when you talk with Lippert.

[howson]

Ready2Retire -- yep, I'm wrong already, dang it. For hydraulic slides a latching input/output is used. A specific slide is designated starting with output 3. Why 3? Because outputs 1 and 2 are used for the hydraulic pump when an output's Latch Relay Enabled is off (gray). (Confused yet? Me too.)



So let's say the bedroom slide's valve is attached to latching relay output 3. The Latching Relay Enabled is off (gray) which means by default outputs 1 and 2 are connected to and power the hydraulic pump.

If latching output 4 is connected to the living room slide, the Latching Relay Enabled for output 4 is also disabled so the pump (on outputs 1 and 2) is engaged when latch output 4 is powered.

If the Unity board was in a trailer that didn't have a hydraulic system, all of the utilized latches would have their Latching Relay Enabled option on (blue).

So when Lippert says "slide" in conjunction with "Reversing Latch Relay" they must mean an electrically driven thru-frame slide. A Schwintek has a separate module (discrete controller) but it is still on the CAN BUS.

I'm learning as I'm going...so forgive any confusion I may be injecting. Hopefully I'm clarifying as I'm going.

[Ready2Retire]

howson getting ready for work, but real quick... Latch Out LC pin 1 (green wire) extends the slide and Latch Out LC pin 2 (yellow wire) retracts the slide. More later...

John

[howson]

Ready2Retire
Something is messing with my mind looking at your pictures. I've learned a lot about the Unity x4 board since our last exchange.

The bottom side of the board are all inputs. There's no connector or wires attached to the REV IN (input)connector. "REV" means Reversing Latch Relay. These are devices that run in two directions. A fan vent. An awning. A slide room. Why is nothing connected? I don't understand.

The connector next to it is the LATCH input connector. "LAT" means Latching Relay. A latching relay controls devices that once turned on stay on (like a light switch) or when turned off stay off.



Reading back through your first post, it is now becoming a little clearer even though I don't have it all figured out. You wrote, He walked me through checking the programming and everything seemed correct except there was a setting for the "Main Slide" that was "Off". He said to turn that to "On". I did and the switch would activate the pump, but it would only stow regardless of which way I operated the switch. That's because it's wired to a latching relay and not a reversing latch relay. (I think.)

I can't wrap my head around why GD put a slide (a reversing item) on LATCH IN 1 and 2. I must be missing something or don't completely understand quite yet. I've got to do more reading.

What I DO know if these inputs and outputs are configurable. If all of the inputs and/or outputs aren't all being used we can move wires and reprogram to tell the board (the "OCTP") what pins you're using on the X4 to control your slide. This is easily {clears throat} accomplished through the v3 software in the OCTP. If a channel is available and the problem is with one dead channel, there's no need to replace the entire board.

The next time you're at the trailer, try to confirm which REV OUT pins or LATCH OUT pins are sending power to the pump and valve.

More to come...

[Ready2Retire]

Quick update: I got the new touch pad installed and fired up. FYI it is now V3. I have a call in to LCI and am waiting to hear back. One interesting thing I noticed, V3 allows me to see different things than V2 did. One thing that stood out is on the slides; for the main slide it shows an address, on the bedroom slide it shows "Wall Switch". Both slides work using the touch pad, so now I'm thinking this may just be a setting that went wonky and may just need to be reconfigured. I'll know more when I talk to LCI. I'll keep you posted.

John

[Ready2Retire]

Just a quick update: Last Tuesday the updated touch pad arrived via UPS. With the Thanksgiving holiday and our last camping trip of the season happening, along with work commitments, I have not messed with it. I decided that since I could still make everything work using the touch pad I would leave well enough alone for the trip. I'll have some time this week and I'll post updates when relevant.

John

[Ready2Retire]

howson Totally understand what you're saying, and that may be why LCI is sending me an updated touchscreen. This may give me access to the pin assignments. We'll see...

Ah the world of multiplexing. This is why backyard mechanics are becoming a thing of the past. Even in automotive, they had to drop the J1939 protocol and go to a faster network because of the amount of data being shared between all the body, chassis, engine, etc. modules. We're as much computer and electronic technicians as we are mechanics!

John

Edited to add: I just got off the phone with Grand Design. This is in response to the email I sent them a couple of days ago. They are initiating a case (got the case number) for the issue. I explained that I was working with LCI (gave them the name of the tech), and he told me he knows the individual at LCI and I'm in good hands. He also said if I need any help from GD to give them a call and cite the case number. I couldn't be more pleased with the response from both LCI and GD.

I sense there may have been some back room communication concerning my issue, and if you had anything to do with that... Thank you!

John

[howson]

Ready2Retire ,

I wouldn't be concerned about the use of the term "valve" on LCI's board. Generic term most likely. These are paired discrete inputs that are programmed to drive a specific output (as you've already determined and documented in this thread).

I highly doubt that all 8 of the discrete (input) pairs are in use. It would be interesting to find out which ones are being used and which ones are not. What items on your trailer (that are controlled by the OneControl panel) have an additional discrete switch? Both awnings? All three slides? (That closet in the bedroom must be a Schwintek, right?)

If we can find an input not being used, and LCI can tell you how to program the controller to disable input 1 (pins 1 and 2) and make input x have the output respond instead, you're off to the races. You won't need a new controller.

So the $844 question is can the board be reprogrammed by the owner.

Worth a try to find out. Since you understand multiplexing and discrete inputs I think the concept above (hopefully) is easy to grasp. (Ever mess with EMUX on a B-1B? Now THAT is a multiplex system!)

[Ready2Retire]

One other point I'll make is it would seem hard inputs like the Slide Switch goes through the circuitry, while the "Soft" inputs (from the touchscreen/phone app) goes through the boards digital software logic. That's why the slides still work using the touchscreen but not the switch... Make sense?

John

[Ready2Retire]

OK, I think I understand.

When you checkedfor continuity from the switch to the connector, were the wires front-to-back in the connector? (Pins "1A" and "1B".) Or were they side-by-side (pins 1 and 2).

Which end of the connector? Using the picture as the frame of reference, the far right or far left? Better yet, what colors.

On the bottom right (also see green arrow in your post #4), it's the 16 pin connector, pins #1 and 2. They are on the back side of the connector so hard to see. See the pic below... I did take off the cover out of curiosity BTW, there is no schematic, only a pin layout. And the board doesn't look very user serviceable. If you look at the pic, on the bottom right you'll see "Latch In". Pin 1 and 2 are the input. Pin 1 (green) extends the slides and pin 2 (yellow) retracts the slides. Notice it also refers to "Valve 1". At the top of the pic, you'll see "Latch Out LC". Pin 1 (green) extend and pin 2 (yellow) retract I'm guessing in conjunction with pin 3 (grey) Valve 1. So it would seem the input is tied directly (through the circuitry) to specific output. This tells me I won't just be able to change inputs to different pins and reconfigure. I could be wrong, but...



Here's one of the board itself...



John

[howson]

That's good information, now we know where to look if it comes down to that. Where we're at right now though is:

We know the switch used to work.

We know the controller is getting the input (at least to the male side of the 16 pin connector), and now have no output using the switch.

We know both the switch and the touchscreen use the same output wire, and the slides do work using the touchscreen.

Unfortunately, somewhere between the switch input and the common output there is an issue. Logically it can only be in the controller...

OK, I think I understand.

When you checkedfor continuity from the switch to the connector, were the wires front-to-back in the connector? (Pins "1A" and "1B".) Or were they side-by-side (pins 1 and 2).

Which end of the connector? Using the picture as the frame of reference, the far right or far left? Better yet, what colors.

[Ready2Retire]

Good news that the voltages are OK...except an issue there would have been (relatively) easy to fix.

Agreed! It's never that easy...

Just got a note from LCI Customer Service--the schematic for the controller is on the underside of the lid! To quote LCI, If you took the 4 screws out of the cover on the board the Schematic for the inputs and outputs is on the inside of the cover.

Edited: Just saw your other post.

That's good information, now we know where to look if it comes down to that. Where we're at right now though is:

We know the switch used to work.

We know the controller is getting the input (at least to the male side of the 16 pin connector), and now have no output using the switch.

We know both the switch and the touchscreen use the same output wire, and the slides do work using the touchscreen.

Unfortunately, somewhere between the switch input and the common output there is an issue. Logically it can only be in the controller...

John

[howson]

Okay, top to right and bottom to right, lets call the top left power #1, and bottom right #4. Battery voltage at the (Isolated batteries as I have 2) is 13.0 v and 13.22 volts. First, I checked the ground lug, (not the wire) to the battery post ground (again, not the wire) from lug to lug I have 0.7 ohms. In automotive, anything less than 10 ohms is considered good, so I have a good ground to the battery.

On all 4 power lugs, I have 13.21 volts (batteries connected in parallel). So a 0.01v voltage drop from batteries to X4 is insignificant. I operated the slides from the basement using the phone app, and voltage on #1, 3, and 4 did not change. Voltage on #3 dropped from 13.21 to 13.0, again insignificant. Edited to add, I also used my amp clamp on the wire to #3 and it showed 4 amps.

I also checked voltage from the manual switch to the X4 just to make sure there wasn't a serious voltage drop. I bypassed the switch using a jumper wire since my arms are not long enough. Switch to the 16 pin my voltage was 13.18 from 13.21, not a significant voltage drop.

Bottom line is my voltages and ground are more than sufficient to work.

John

Good news that the voltages are OK...except an issue there would have been (relatively) easy to fix.

Just got a note from LCI Customer Service--the schematic for the controller is on the underside of the lid! To quote LCI, If you took the 4 screws out of the cover on the board the Schematic for the inputs and outputs is on the inside of the cover.

Edited: Just saw your other post.

[Ready2Retire]

A rep at Lippert wants to speak with you. I'm sending you contact info by private message. (Actually he thought I was the one with the problem...just send him another email clarifying the issue, so it might take him a second to connect the dots.)

Just to update: The LCI Rep you spoke of was unavailable today, however another Rep called me this morning. He told me he usually does the grunt work for the other guy... We went out to the RV and did some checks, and he is thinking there may be an issue with the pin-out locations. Unfortunately the tablet in the RV (he believes) is an older version and won't show the pin-out. He is sending me a later version of the tablet to install and we'll go from there. He still has a feeling that ultimately the X4 is bad but wants to try this first...

I'll keep y'all posted!

John

[Ready2Retire]

I suggest checking power first and go from there.

Okay, top to right and bottom to right, lets call the top left power #1, and bottom right #4. Battery voltage at the (Isolated batteries as I have 2) is 13.0 v and 13.22 volts. First, I checked the ground lug, (not the wire) to the battery post ground (again, not the wire) from lug to lug I have 0.7 ohms. In automotive, anything less than 10 ohms is considered good, so I have a good ground to the battery.

On all 4 power lugs, I have 13.21 volts (batteries connected in parallel). So a 0.01v voltage drop from batteries to X4 is insignificant. I operated the slides from the basement using the phone app, and voltage on #1, 3, and 4 did not change. Voltage on #2 dropped from 13.21 to 13.0, again insignificant. Edited to add, I also used my amp clamp on the wire to #2 and it showed 4 amps.

I also checked voltage from the manual switch to the X4 just to make sure there wasn't a serious voltage drop. I bypassed the switch using a jumper wire since my arms are not long enough. Switch to the 16 pin my voltage was 13.18 from 13.21, not a significant voltage drop.

Bottom line is my voltages and ground are more than sufficient to work.

John