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**Country Campers** · 06-24-2020, 05:52 AM

chrisopy

I moved your post out on its own for a proper discussion.

Reading all of your numbers it does look like you are over weight on the trailer. The best way to see just the trailer weight is to weigh just the trailer, pull onto the scales and unhook from truck, make sure tongue jack is on the same weigh pad as the trailer or remove truck from scales. The last sheet that you have attached is the build sheet , showing you have about 1500# payload for the trailer. I know you may have weighed the "heavy" items but the "light" items , if you have lots , will make up weight as well. You have a good handle on what is going on you just might want to do a little more checking. I would hate for you to have an axel or spring problem while traveling.

Brian

**howson** · 06-24-2020, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

First weigh truck and travel trailer connected with WDH
Steer Axle - 4040
Drive axle - 4220
trailer axle- 7800
Gross Weight- 15,900

Second Weight just truck without WDH and without a bin of wood that was in the first weigh that probably weighed 40lbs
Steer Axle- 4040
Drive axle- 2980
Gross Weight- 7020

What has me confused is the tongue weight ...is 1,280

Not through my first cup of coffee, so this one if making me think way too early in the morning.

But I'll give it a go.

Minor math difference, but I come up with a calculated tongue weight of 1,240. (Truck's gross is 7020 w/o trailer, 8260 w/trailer, so difference is 1,240.)

Regardless, the calculated number with the WDH may not actually be THE tongue weight (it's probably higher since the WDH transfers some of where the tongue weight is "felt" or "carried" back to the trailer's axles). To get the actual tongue weight, go across the CAT scale with the WDH disconnected. I won't go into any more detail here as that's a subject for another thread. Another option is to use a Sherline Tongue Scale. For more info on Sherline tongue scales, check out this thread: https://gdrvowners.com/towing-and-hi...g-helpful-info

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

According to the online calculator, the camper weighs 9,040 (calculated tongue weight added to trailer axle weight). The trailer GVWR is 8,495 and the unloaded vehicle weight is 7,018. According to this I am 545lbs over my GVWR and supposedly have 2,022lbs (9,040-7,018) of cargo from what the unloaded trailer weight is.

Yes, you're overweight. What does the factory weight sheet show for your trailer? Your dealer should have given you this information. This weight will be higher than what's on GD's spec sheet (I've never seen one lower or even matching) and remember this does not include propane or the battery. If you don't have the sheet and want it, call Customer Service and request they email it to you. (I'd be very curious to know what the actual UVW is for your unit as it came off the assembly line.)

Additionally, it doesn't matter what is done with settings on the WDH, the gross weight of 9040 is the trailer's weight. It's too high.

This may sound crazy but--go pull (open) the white fresh water dump handle. If water comes pouring out underneath your camper that's why it's so heavy. (If the trailer's water pump is bypassing city water into the water tank there may be a load of water in the tank and you may not realize it.)

Fire away with follow-up questions...and if (anyone) disagrees or has a different perspective/opinion/facts/questions feel free to contribute to this thread.

Howard

**Second Chance** · 06-24-2020, 08:11 AM

I can't add anything to what the others have said - they've got it right.

Rob

**chrisopy** · 06-24-2020, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by howson View Post

Not through my first cup of coffee, so this one if making me think way too early in the morning.

But I'll give it a go.

Minor math difference, but I come up with a calculated tongue weight of 1,240. (Truck's gross is 7020 w/o trailer, 8260 w/trailer, so difference is 1,240.)

Regardless, the calculated number with the WDH may not actually be THE tongue weight (it's probably higher since the WDH transfers some of where the tongue weight is "felt" or "carried" back to the trailer's axles). To get the actual tongue weight, go across the CAT scale with the WDH disconnected. I won't go into any more detail here as that's a subject for another thread. Another option is to use a Sherline Tongue Scale. For more info on Sherline tongue scales, check out this thread: https://gdrvowners.com/towing-and-hi...g-helpful-info

Yes, you're overweight. What does the factory weight sheet show for your trailer? Your dealer should have given you this information. This weight will be higher than what's on GD's spec sheet (I've never seen one lower or even matching) and remember this does not include propane or the battery. If you don't have the sheet and want it, call Customer Service and request they email it to you. (I'd be very curious to know what the actual UVW is for your unit as it came off the assembly line.)

Additionally, it doesn't matter what is done with settings on the WDH, the gross weight of 9040 is the trailer's weight. It's too high.

This may sound crazy but--go pull (open) the white fresh water dump handle. If water comes pouring out underneath your camper that's why it's so heavy. (If the trailer's water pump is bypassing city water into the water tank there may be a load of water in the tank and you may not realize it.)

Fire away with follow-up questions...and if (anyone) disagrees or has a different perspective/opinion/facts/questions feel free to contribute to this thread.

Howard

Thanks for the response. Factory weight for my trailer is 7,018. The build sheet is attached in the first post above. So If I take my calculated trailer weight from the calculator I did, which comes out to 9,040, this would mean I'm carrying 2,022lbs of cargo. I am confident I don't have this much cargo. The cargo carrying capacity of the trailer is 1,437. I see the online calculator I used was for a fifth wheel too and the travel trailer calculator asks for a weigh with truck and camper without WDH. Not sure if this could have made a big difference in my numbers, esp. my tongue weight? The fresh tank valve was open the whole time, so I know it was empty. So, the accurate tongue weight would be truck and trailer weighed with WDH and truck and trailer weighed without spring bars, and taking the difference of the two drive axles?

I may get a tongue weight scale. I assume the trailer should be level when using it? Also, if I understand correctly the WDH won't change your tongue weight so by me adjusting mine, I can't theoretically put more weight onto the truck front axle and not have my gross trailer weight be so high?

**chrisopy** · 06-24-2020, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Country Campers View Post

chrisopy

I moved your post out on its own for a proper discussion.

Reading all of your numbers it does look like you are over weight on the trailer. The best way to see just the trailer weight is to weigh just the trailer, pull onto the scales and unhook from truck, make sure tongue jack is on the same weigh pad as the trailer or remove truck from scales. The last sheet that you have attached is the build sheet , showing you have about 1500# payload for the trailer. I know you may have weighed the "heavy" items but the "light" items , if you have lots , will make up weight as well. You have a good handle on what is going on you just might want to do a little more checking. I would hate for you to have an axel or spring problem while traveling.

Brian

It was a busy CAT scale so I didn't think I could disconnect from the trailer quick enough to weight and hook back up to get off. Wasn't sure if this was acceptable either.

**Second Chance** · 06-24-2020, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

It was a busy CAT scale so I didn't think I could disconnect from the trailer quick enough to weight and hook back up to get off. Wasn't sure if this was acceptable either.

Most of us don't unhitch on the scale. We weigh the whole rig and pull over in a parking slot to drop the trailer - then run back across the scales with just the truck. Those two weight tickets will give you all the info you need (no need to weigh the trailer by itself, too). That way you're not irritating any truckers.

Rob

**chrisopy** · 06-24-2020, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Second Chance View Post

Most of us don't unhitch on the scale. We weigh the whole rig and pull over in a parking slot to drop the trailer - then run back across the scales with just the truck. Those two weight tickets will give you all the info you need (no need to weigh the trailer by itself, too). That way you're not irritating any truckers.

Rob

I actually just took the trailer back to the campground and went back for a re-weigh to weight the truck. So, that online calculator for a travel trailer asks for numbers with truck and trailer without WDH. Also, some others have said this as well. Should I return and weigh truck and camper without spring bars attached. Copied from my post to Howson above - the accurate tongue weight would be truck and trailer weighed with WDH and truck and trailer weighed without spring bars, and taking the difference of the two drive axles? Thanks again. Planning on leaving the campground in a few days and just want to make sure I have the weigh process correctly as I see different methods.

Also, moving things from the camper to the bed of my truck would decrease the camper weight, but add to my tongue weight correct?

**Second Chance** · 06-24-2020, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

I actually just took the trailer back to the campground and went back for a re-weigh to weight the truck. So, that online calculator for a travel trailer asks for numbers with truck and trailer without WDH. Also, some others have said this as well. Should I return and weigh truck and camper without spring bars attached. Copied from my post to Howson above - the accurate tongue weight would be truck and trailer weighed with WDH and truck and trailer weighed without spring bars, and taking the difference of the two drive axles? Thanks again. Planning on leaving the campground in a few days and just want to make sure I have the weigh process correctly as I see different methods.

You can find out how much your hitch and bars weigh (usually around 100 lbs. for a good WDH) - probably not worth all the trouble. PM me with your email address and I'll send you the spreadsheet I use to calculate everything.

Rob

**howson** · 06-24-2020, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

Also, moving things from the camper to the bed of my truck would decrease the camper weight, but add to my tongue weight correct?

No. It will take away from your truck's available payload. A item has to be in (or on, attached to, etc) the camper to affect tongue weight.

**howson** · 06-24-2020, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

... the accurate tongue weight would be truck and trailer weighed with WDH and truck and trailer weighed without spring bars, and taking the difference of the two drive axles?

Sorry, but no again.

I'll try to be concise.

1) Weigh the truck without the camper. The WDH hitch can be in the receiver, but no bars. Everyone and everything you'd normally have in the truck for camping should be in it. (Dogs, cats, birds, ferrets...)

2) Weigh the truck and camper combo. The camper will be attached to the WDH hitch but do not attach tension on the bars to get the actual tongue weight. Contents of the truck must match exactly what was in the truck for weigh #1.

The math is easy once you have those two sets of numbers.

3) Attach your WDH's tension bars and go across the CAT again. Look closely at the axle weights to ensure you're not exceeding any rating on any of the axles and that enough weight is on the front axle of the truck. Adjust accordingly and if necessary weigh again to verify. (Yours was setup well--front axle weight was right back at 4040. I can't get there with mine.)

**chrisopy** · 06-24-2020, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by howson View Post

Sorry, but no again.

I'll try to be concise.

1) Weigh the truck without the camper. The WDH hitch can be in the receiver, but no bars. Everyone and everything you'd normally have in the truck for camping should be in it. (Dogs, cats, birds, ferrets...)

2) Weigh the truck and camper combo. The camper will be attached to the WDH hitch but do not attach tension on the bars to get the actual tongue weight. Contents of the truck must match exactly what was in the truck for weigh #1.

The math is easy once you have those two sets of numbers.

3) Attach your WDH's tension bars and go across the CAT again. Look closely at the axle weights to ensure you're not exceeding any rating on any of the axles and that enough weight is on the front axle of the truck. Adjust accordingly and if necessary weigh again to verify. (Yours was setup well--front axle weight was right back at 4040. I can't get there with mine.)

"the calculated number with the WDH may not actually be THE tongue weight (it's probably higher since the WDH transfers some of where the tongue weight is "felt" or "carried" back to the trailer's axles)" - From your post earlier.

Is it also possible that since the online calculator I used was for a fifth wheel and didn't ask for truck and camper weight without spring bars like the travel trailer calculator does, that the numbers It gave me aren't correct? Since I didn't weigh the truck and trailer without spring bars, could the 9,040 camper weight it gave me be wrong?

So, WDH only transfers tongue weight from trailer to front axle of TV and trailer axles. Only way to decrease the GVWR on the trailer is to remove some things if I understand correctly. Yes, It was only at 160lb difference between the steer axles when hooked up and just truck alone. 3,880 just truck and 4040 with camper and WDH with bars. So, the third step as you said is for checking correct axle weights. I can calculate my tongue weight based on the first two steps and the trailer weight is the axle weight plus the tongue weight. Now, if when I attach the spring bars and weigh the combo again, the WDH will change my tongue weight so that will also change my total trailer weight then? I may be confusing myself. I appreciate yours and everyone's patience so far that has helped me with this.

**howson** · 06-25-2020, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

Is it also possible that since the online calculator I used was for a fifth wheel and didn't ask for truck and camper weight without spring bars like the travel trailer calculator does, that the numbers It gave me aren't correct? Since I didn't weigh the truck and trailer without spring bars, could the 9,040 camper weight it gave me be wrong?

Not enough to account for how overweight the trailer is at the moment. The process in post 11 is how to be the most precise. It also should give you a hint why many of us have Sherline Tongue Scales--we can measure tongue weight in our driveway and any difference by moving stuff around in the trailer, adding (or removing) water, etc. Obviously the WDH is not a factor (since it's not being used!) when utilizing the Sherline.

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

So, WDH only transfers tongue weight from trailer to front axle of TV and trailer axles. Only way to decrease the GVWR on the trailer is to remove some things if I understand correctly.

Yes, except to be precise you are not changing the gross rating (the "R" in GVWR) you're changing the gross weight (GVW). I've seen some sites refer to this as the Loaded Vehicle Weight (LVW). BL: The trailer's gross weight should be at or less than the gross weight rating. Your owner's manual has stern warnings on this topic.

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

Now, if when I attach the spring bars and weigh the combo again, the WDH will change my tongue weight so that will also change my total trailer weight then?

No, the tongue weight is still the tongue weight. If you want to really torture yourself, you can calculate exactly where the WDH is distributing the tongue weight.

Let's assume you just weighed your setup, truck and camper, WDH is NOT engaged and the tongue weight is calculated at 1,000 lbs.

The weights on the CAT ticket show the steer axle is 4,000 lbs; drive axle at 5,000 lbs; and trailer is 8,000 lbs.

The WDH is engaged and back across the CAT scale to get a new set of weights. The steer axle shows 4,250; drive axle 4,500; and trailer axles 8,250. Did the tongue weight change? No. The WDH "moved" 250 lbs to the front axle and 250 lbs to the trailer axles. The WDH changed where the weight is "felt", it does not change the tongue weight (or gross weight of the camper). The WDH is doing exactly what it is supposed to do--"distribute the weight".

Clear as mud?

Howard

P.S. I calculated tongue weight wrong for a long time. There are many, many old posts of mine that will contradict what is written above.

**chrisopy** · 06-25-2020, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by howson View Post

Not enough to account for how overweight the trailer is at the moment. The process in post 11 is how to be the most precise. It also should give you a hint why many of us have Sherline Tongue Scales--we can measure tongue weight in our driveway and any difference by moving stuff around in the trailer, adding (or removing) water, etc. Obviously the WDH is not a factor (since it's not being used!) when utilizing the Sherline.

Yes, except to be precise you are not changing the gross rating (the "R" in GVWR) you're changing the gross weight (GVW). I've seen some sites refer to this as the Loaded Vehicle Weight (LVW). BL: The trailer's gross weight should be at or less than the gross weight rating. Your owner's manual has stern warnings on this topic.

No, the tongue weight is still the tongue weight. If you want to really torture yourself, you can calculate exactly where the WDH is distributing the tongue weight.

Let's assume you just weighed your setup, truck and camper, WDH is NOT engaged and the tongue weight is calculated at 1,000 lbs.

The weights on the CAT ticket show the steer axle is 4,000 lbs; drive axle at 5,000 lbs; and trailer is 8,000 lbs.

The WDH is engaged and back across the CAT scale to get a new set of weights. The steer axle shows 4,250; drive axle 4,500; and trailer axles 8,250. Did the tongue weight change? No. The WDH "moved" 250 lbs to the front axle and 250 lbs to the trailer axles. The WDH changed where the weight is "felt", it does not change the tongue weight (or gross weight of the camper). The WDH is doing exactly what it is supposed to do--"distribute the weight".

Clear as mud?

Howard

P.S. I calculated tongue weight wrong for a long time. There are many, many old posts of mine that will contradict what is written above.

Thanks Howard. In the end I just need to remove some cargo from the trailer. I'll have to get a tongue weight scale, though in my case, I'll still need to weigh the trailer to make sure I'm not over its GVW once I add the tongue weight to it. I'm pretty sure I understand the weighing process now. Do you find your tongue weight scale to be pretty accurate? Thanks for all the help, and if I have any further questions, I know where to find you.

**howson** · 06-25-2020, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by chrisopy View Post

Do you find your tongue weight scale to be pretty accurate?

Yes, but be careful of where you place the scale to ensure the weight measured is 1:1. See the linked thread on the Sherline for more information. You'll save yourself from making the same "newbie" mistakes I made by heeding the lessons-learned documented in that thread.

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