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ProPride 3p and Trailer Payload

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  • ProPride 3p and Trailer Payload



    Okay, bear with me here, this might be ridiculous but I had a lot of time while driving on our last trip and came up with a few thoughts about the ProPride as it relates to payload numbers.


    The image referenced in the next section is not my current truck, but it still illustrates the hitch configuration.


    The entire 3p system weighs in at 195lbs according to the data given to me by the manufacturer. Since most of the hitch stays attached to the trailer (see green and blue highlights in the image) minus the 46lb "stinger" (see red highlight in image), when you weigh it via a CAT scale, that number is being included in the weight of the trailer thus counting against your available trailer payload. However once you hook up to the truck the whole hitch system becomes one piece (red and green highlights in the image lock together to create one solid piece) similar to a regular WDH with the trailer coupler sitting on the ball of the hitch. At this point the truck is bearing the majority of the 195lbs. The only weight being carried by the trailer frame itself is the weight distribution jacks and the frame bracket for maybe a total of 25 lbs (see blue highlight in image). Measuring like this would be akin to leaving your WDH attached to the ball of your trailer while weighing your rig.

    Click image for larger version

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    This has led me to the opinion that the majority of the hitch weight should not count against trailer payload, rather truck payload.


    My thinking is that this method of weighing the trailer is throwing off my actual tongue weight as well as my available trailer payload. Ideally you'd disconnect from the hitch at the ball and weigh the truck with the stinger, yoke, and hitch head attached to get your truck weight. Then hook up and measure your total weight as normal. This would be the same way I measured when I had the blue ox. However this is not practical with the 3p since a lot of the hardware does not easily disconnect from the trailer tongue and has to be achieved using some math.


    Hitch weight included in CAT truck weight: 46lbs

    Hitch weight included in CAT trailer weight: 149lbs

    Estimated weight of WD jacks & frame bracket: 25lbs

    Actual hitch weight carried by truck: 170lbs


    My thinking is that I should add 124lbs to my drive axle weight as presented on the CAT scale ticket for the truck ONLY weight. This in turn should fix the rest of the calculations down the line and give me the proper weight as seen at the ball of the hitch as well as the proper weight of the trailer. See my weight data tables below. A is before the drive axle correction and B is after the correction. I know my rig was over the GVWR when it was weighed, but you can see the difference this correction makes.



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    This probably seems like a massive amount of overthinking for a relative small amount of difference. However with the payload of the Imagine 2800BH being tight as it is it was worth considering and I obviously had too much time on my hands. Sometimes my analytical side gets the better of me.


    Anyhow, feel free to correct my thinking if I’m missing something about how all of this works. I’m interested in hearing other’s opinions. Hopefully this can help someone out in the future who’s wondering how the weight of the 3p will affect their truck/trailer payload numbers.
    Mike & Kristyn
    '20 Imagine 2800BH
    '19 F250 XLT 6.7 CC SB
    ProPride 3p 1400

  • #2
    Too much time on your hands? That could be the problem with this.

    I think anything ahead of the ball socket on the trailer would count as truck weight. Anything behind the ball and attached to the trailer would count as trailer weight. But you could also think that anything that is bolted to the trailer would count as trailer weight and anything attached to the truck is truck weight. Definitely splitting hairs here and I think you would be fine either way you figure it.

    Maybe you need a hobby.

    Brian
    Brian & Michelle
    2018 Reflection 29RS
    2022 Chevy 3500HD

    Comment


    • #3
      MikeG90,
      Only one issue--a trailer's tongue weight doesn't change when a weight distribution hitch is connected. This was the mistake I made in some of my earlier spreadsheets, too.

      Let me try to explain.

      Imagine a 100lb weight that you deadlift. Not easy, but doable.

      Now imagine that same 100lb weight but it is lifted with a long lever around a stable pivot. Suddenly that 100lb weight is easy to lift. (The playground teeter-totter is a perfect example.) It "feels" lighter. But...in both cases the weight is still 100lbs.

      How does this apply to tongue weight? Let's say a trailer's tongue weight (using a Sherline tongue scale) is determined to be 1,000lbs. The tow vehicle (TV) and trailer are then connected and weighed together (with the weight distribution hitch, or WDH) engaged. The TV is then weighed by itself so the tongue weight of the trailer can be calculated. The math shows the tongue weight is only 800lbs.

      So what happened to the other 200lbs? Is the actual tongue weight of the trailer now 200lbs less?

      Nope. If you looked at the CAT scale figures and did all the math you'd see the WDH moved where some of the tongue weight is carried from the receiver hitch/ball to the trailer's axles and the TV's axles. The actual tongue weight of the trailer, though, is still 1,000lbs. The only thing that will change the actual tongue weight is to add, delete, or shift cargo in the travel trailer.

      I hope that makes some sense.

      Howard
      Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.

      Howard & Francine
      2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlus

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Country Campers View Post
        Too much time on your hands? That could be the problem with this.

        I think anything ahead of the ball socket on the trailer would count as truck weight. Anything behind the ball and attached to the trailer would count as trailer weight. But you could also think that anything that is bolted to the trailer would count as trailer weight and anything attached to the truck is truck weight. Definitely splitting hairs here and I think you would be fine either way you figure it.

        Maybe you need a hobby.

        Brian
        I agree, I was having too much fun tinkering around with things. Unfortunately I can't afford any more hobbies, for some reason I always pick the most expensive ones.

        Mike & Kristyn
        '20 Imagine 2800BH
        '19 F250 XLT 6.7 CC SB
        ProPride 3p 1400

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by howson View Post
          MikeG90,
          Only one issue--a trailer's tongue weight doesn't change when a weight distribution hitch is connected. This was the mistake I made in some of my earlier spreadsheets, too.

          Let me try to explain.

          Imagine a 100lb weight that you deadlift. Not easy, but doable.

          Now imagine that same 100lb weight but it is lifted with a long lever around a stable pivot. Suddenly that 100lb weight is easy to lift. (The playground teeter-totter is a perfect example.) It "feels" lighter. But...in both cases the weight is still 100lbs.

          How does this apply to tongue weight? Let's say a trailer's tongue weight (using a Sherline tongue scale) is determined to be 1,000lbs. The tow vehicle (TV) and trailer are then connected and weighed together (with the weight distribution hitch, or WDH) engaged. The TV is then weighed by itself so the tongue weight of the trailer can be calculated. The math shows the tongue weight is only 800lbs.

          So what happened to the other 200lbs? Is the actual tongue weight of the trailer now 200lbs less?

          Nope. If you looked at the CAT scale figures and did all the math you'd see the WDH moved where some of the tongue weight is carried from the receiver hitch/ball to the trailer's axles and the TV's axles. The actual tongue weight of the trailer, though, is still 1,000lbs. The only thing that will change the actual tongue weight is to add, delete, or shift cargo in the travel trailer.

          I hope that makes some sense.

          Howard
          I appreciate the explanation. Does that spreadsheet look familiar? I think I made almost a carbon copy of the one you created a while back

          I guess maybe I should have explained the weight change a little better. Like you said I actually learned this from you here on the forum that the WDH doesn't change the tongue weight and I just ignore those fields when the WD is engaged. The 0" number there on the sheet is with WD disengaged and thats where I am deriving the tongue weight from. I see how I should probably remove the others for the sake of clarity now.

          The reason for the changing tongue weight number between the 2 spreadsheets is because I'm mathematically removing the weight that is forward of the trailer ball coupler even though it was attached to the trailer when weighed on the scale. So essentially the first spreadsheet is measuring tongue weight where the system couples together rather than at the ball. The weight is still accounted for but is being added to the truck since the weight falls after the trailer ball.

          Anyway this is most definitely splitting hairs and maybe not practically usable but I thought it was interesting none the less.
          Mike & Kristyn
          '20 Imagine 2800BH
          '19 F250 XLT 6.7 CC SB
          ProPride 3p 1400

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree that this is interesting and does provide some useful information with where weight actually goes or gets counted.

            Brian
            Brian & Michelle
            2018 Reflection 29RS
            2022 Chevy 3500HD

            Comment


            • #7
              This is actually very simple..

              1. Trailer tongue weight with a ProPride or Hensley is measured as the trailer stands alone - disconnected. (head and WDH bars...no stinger) This does equate to about 150lbs in total weight but slightly less becomes added/effective "tongue weight" based on the added tongue length and WDH bars that extend well behind ball mount.

              2. Weigh your rig as you would travel, fully loaded trailer and TV with a properly adjusted WDH applied. This will give you actual undisputable "legal" numbers.

              3. Optionally if you want complete information; Weigh your rig without WDH applied (zero tension on the bars) or better yet the truck and trailer on separate pads to get each specific total weight.


              Trying to figure out actual numbers on paper when a WDH is involved is impossible. There are too many variables based on how much weight the WDH will actually distribute.

              The more actual weights you know, the closer you can estimate, but I stress again....the scale is the be all end all.

              Use paper estimates only as a guideline to allow you more or less margin, depending what you are personally comfortable with.

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