I'm partial to GM products, HOWEVER, do your research on what options you must have (as mentioned) vs just plain want. Also consider the most important things like: Dealer Service quality. Distance to nearest qualified Service center, and let's not forget the Sales "experience" where the latest thing is add on packages and pricing like "MARKET ADJUSTMENT". You may want consider ordering vs lot purchase to avoid the "must have packages" like APEX (hyped up tint, paint protection, GPS, etc).
In your research, don't assume just because a dealer sells diesels that their service is "qualified" or "experienced" in repairs on them.
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bellis I agree with most here but a few caveats. I had a short bed 250 and when I upgraded went to a 8' bed. It is longer to park, but tows much better in my opinion. When I go Solitude someday I will also go dually, most likely a 450 as suggested for the tighter turn radius, but for now I am glad to have SRW. Dad had a 350 dually for a while and it towed and rode awesome, but could not take it through car washes and other day to day complications. I use mine for towing 90% of the time, but touring small towns from a campground with the dually would be tricky.
For the fifth wheel prep I have and interesting opinion. I know Rob has done this math, but due to the Ford bed length and axle placement, you do not get much tailgate clearance when hooked up. I have a Goosebox, which I would stay with, and I would love to use a offset gooseball to move the rig back a little, but that is only available with the square shank balls, and the factory prep package uses a round shank ball. I would buy no prep and have a B&W gooseball installed under the bed so I could do a square offset ball. That said if you want to go with a fifth wheel hitch, do the prep.
Dad or I have had five diesel trucks since 97, in pretty much every every engine Ford made. Some were good, some were okay, and some were bad, but knock on wood we have never blown a turbo. We did not keep most of them past 150k, so that probably has something to do with it, but the ESP usually does not go that long anyway. My only suggestion there is if you want one get a Ford one, and they are much cheaper with some dealers that sell them online at cost rather than through your dealer. It is not like the RV market, if you buy a true Ford ESP, it will be valid at any dealer anywhere no matter what you pay for it.Leave a comment:
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The age old debate. The big three all make great trucks where generally the purchase is made on price, features, personal comfort and style. GM has introduced a new interior which could be found on the best luxury cars. It will be awhile before it hits the HD trucks where its now in the half ton trucks.
Here is a peak.
https://www.motor1.com/news/542343/2...0-supercruise/
The 3.31:1 axle ratio will no doubt be better on fuel economy when running empty but it could be a detriment with high loads and steep terrain depending on what your towing. I would agree with others that a Momentum or Solitude should be towed with a DRW diesel truck.
I've always wished manufacturers would introduce a two speed rear axle where that would add cost but could deliver amazing fuel economy when unladed.
Jim
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bellis
This will inevitably be a long thread . . . but, nothing wrong with that
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We recently went through all the questions you are pondering. I basically agree with the points made by Brian and Howard, so I will not repeat their advice, except the part about a diesel dually being the right truck for Momentum and Solitude. The dually only comes with the long box, so that answers that question.
We gave careful consideration to GMC and Ford trucks. From a specifications perspective they are essentially identical. Where they differ is the interior. We both like the seat comfort in the Ford over the GM. Also the lower hood for better forward visibility. The dash layout in the Ford with the big centre screen is far superior to the GM, but I understand GM is about to catch up. The camera systems on the new trucks are simply amazing. Integrated trailer camera and TPMS is a worthwhile option. The rear seat folds up to leave a larger flat floor in the Ford. . . which is important for our dogs.
Extended warranty is a must. Take a look under the hood of any of these trucks . . . there is very little that you are going to be able to fix yourself. The dealer Service Manager was telling me how they first lift off the entire cab for major powertrain work.
We chose an F350 Diesel short box SRW to replace our F150 HDPP Ecoboost, with no intention of upgrading to a larger 5th wheel. My biggest learning out of this is how capable that smaller truck really was! If I had this to do over again, I would give more consideration to the 7.3L gas engine in an F250 which would have the same payload as the F350 Diesel . . . but not for hauling a Solitude or a Momentum.
Lead time for getting a new truck is currently up to a year from when you order it . . . so, plan ahead!
RobLeave a comment:
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bellis
When I goofed and bought a 250 (I didn't fully understand payload back then) it set off a chain of events that eventually led to the DRW I have now.
The only experience difference I've encountered when parking and driving from the 250 (short bed) to 350 DRW long bed is due to the length difference, not width.
If the reason is an eventual upgrade to a much larger unit (also why I bought a DRW--wasn't going to get caught in the "not enough truck" situation again) also consider a 450 DRW. Before you think I'm crazy--there's actually less sticker payload in a 450 but the difference in the steering (turns a lot sharper) could make a difference. I've actually got the worst of both situations with my setup--a 350 with a long travel trailer (the 38' 315RLTS). Makes maneuvering "interesting" on occasion. I do not have first-hand experience with the 450's steering, but if I was replacing my 350 DRW a test drive of a 450 would be done before making a purchase decision.
Back to options: thinking back to those purchases, the best advice I can give is to examine every single option available and understand what those options are before making the purchase.
Must Haves (Personal Opinion): Adaptive Cruise Control, 4x4, Upfitter switches, Camera System (whatever they are calling it now), dual zone climate controls, heated seats and steering wheel, power folding mirrors, LED headlights
Rarely Used: Sunroof (though it was great to have on the last trip for the rear passengers to look up through)
Finally, for the first time ever I bought an extended service plan on the truck (Ford's ESP). I think of it like insurance--if I don't need it, great. If I need it I'll be super happy it's available. Also eliminates worry about the turbo, etc. (I worry more about the quality of DEF and what a bad batch could do to that system more than the turbo. For the latter, follow the owners manual and let the turbo cool by idling for 3-5 minutes after a long tow or high speed driving. I watch engine oil, coolant, and transmission temp closely to understand what's "normal" and when the truck is hot.)
Quick backstory to explain why: the ESP was purchased after my dealer fixed a "minor" oil leak (it was just small drops on the concrete). Looking through the pages of parts they replaced (one-time use bolts, etc) it became obvious the repair was in the thousands of dollars if I'd had to pay out-of-pocket. Thankfully it was still under the original manufacturer warranty but the experience resulted in buying the ESP.
Good luck with the hunt,
HowardLeave a comment:
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When you say " larger Solitude/Momentum in the future" I would go dually, long bed. The single rear wheel will limit you to about #4000 cargo weight, this can disappear quickly with a Solitude/Momentum. I prefer the diesel for towing and also the 8' bed, they do tow better than the short bed in my opinion. I would also recommend the fifth wheel package, much easier to get factory than do it your self some day. Other than that I think they are all good trucks but I would prefer Chevy. Also compare bed rail height as they all seem to be getting higher.
BrianLeave a comment:
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New Truck
So - broaching the age old question...
Apparently I am about to be in the market for a new truck. Per my signature we are currently towing an Imagine 2400BH and my half ton truck (with 4x4 and the larger SuperCrew cab on new trucks simply called "Crew Cab") is probably a little light for what we are pulling.
While I hope I am years out on a 5th wheel - the DW has been dreaming of a larger Solitude or Momentum for a year or more...so this could be in my future.
I won't buy a truck that is not 4x4 and the larger passenger Crew Cab is also required to haul the family comfortably while towing. I recognize that I may be buying something larger than what is needed - but would like to be clear of being right at cargo or at times over my cargo capacity when towing. Not to mention - possibly be able to tow a 5th wheel in the future.
Advice / Criticism is very much appreciated. Please question things!
1. I am leaning towards an F350 over other manufacturers and the 250. Would anyone recommend I look at RAM or others? My last truck buying experience was anti-Ford....and when I looked at the Ford's compared to others....well...I bought a Ford....ha! I also do not believe in my state that a commercial registration is required for the F350 - I am looking into as well as have a message to my auto insurance for some additional details.
2. I am leaning towards diesel > gas. Specifically the Diesel 6.7L PowerStroke V8 Turbo 10 Speed. What is the risk of the turbo going out on a Diesel truck? I know that is an issue that I have heard with Turbo's and can be pricey to repair/replace.
3. I am leaning SRW > DRW just for convenience (parking/drive throughs, cheaper on tires, etc.). I realize that a DRW may tow better and that it has better traction and inherently reduces/fights sway. I could be convinced to go DRW potentially. Probably way overkill for my current rig.
4. I am leaning toward the long 8' box to hopefully increase cargo capacity and towing (is this flawed thinking?) Longer wheelbase = more cargo/better towing? Also concerned in the future with 5th wheel hitch options on the short box? (just less options). Based off the 2021 spec sheet it looks like on the Crew Cab the shorter bed has great payload?!? (pages 6-10)
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/super-duty/21-Super-Duty-Pickup-Tech-Specs.pdf
F350 SRW 4x4 Crew Cab
GVWR = 9,900 Short box = 3,120 vs Long box = 2,890
GVWR = 10,000 Short box = 3,220 vs Long box = 2,990
GVWR = 10,600 Short box = 3,820 vs Long box = N/A
GVWR = 10,900 Short box = N/A vs Long box = 3,890
GVWR = 11,100 Short box = 4,260 vs Long box = N/A
GVWR = 11,200 Short box = 3,700 vs Long box = N/A
GVWR = 11,300 Short box = 4,460 vs Long box = 4,230
GVWR = 11,400 Short box = 3,900 vs Long box = 4,390
GVWR = 11,500 Short box = 3,940 vs Long box = 4,420
GVWR = 11,900 Short box = N/A vs Long box = 4,730
GVWR = 12,000 Short box = N/A vs Long box = 4,190
GVWR = 12,400 Short box = N/A vs Long box = 4,580
This same greater payload is true of the F-250 SRW 4x4 short box over the long box in the Crew Cab. However, at GVWR 11,400 it appears to flip and start to favor the longer box truck. It looks like the heaviest Solitude hitch weight is ~3,100 lbs. and the heaviest Momentum hitch weight is ~3,600 lbs. (rounded up). Assume both of those are empty weights per GD's website. Per these numbers - concerned about payload on a future rig. The Momentum if maxed out at 20k would have an approximate pin weight of 4k lbs. The max Solitude weight of 16,800 x 20% would = ~3,360 lbs. Not a lot of point to a Crew Cab if the rig's tongue weight, driver, hitch, and misc. stuff in the truck maxes/exceeds cargo capacity and I don't have room for the DW and kids...
5. I was thinking truck would be purchased with 5th wheel prep even though I do not have one. Is that a mistake? Is that easy to add later or better to have factory prep?
6. Was thinking of going with the 3.31 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio - do I need to change this to 3.55? It does not look like it makes a difference to the towing rating. This may be too insignificant a difference. I think the lower ratio will grant 0.5-1 mpg better fuel economy.
Sorry for the long / detailed post. 5th wheel owners and truck aficionados please advise!
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