Adding An Awning to a slide

[tgodrich]

Hi,
I have a 2016 Reflection 303RLS. I added slide toppers to this trailer (actually the dealer did). The newer years of this model trailer now have an awning on the right side (dining room) slide that effectively gives you the back half of the trailer as awning coverage too in addition to the second awning over the front and door. I asked the dealer if they could install this awning on my trailer and they said they would not. Something about interfering with internal wiring. In essence, they would not do it.

So, I am thinking to do this myself. I am an engineer, and very electrically and mechanically adept. Actually putting the awning onto the trailer will require a couple of friends to help me slide it into the rail. But the brackets I can deal with, and I believe I can fish wire into the wall to get power to it, and run it to my control panel with the other Awning button. I have the Carefree part numbers for the awning and control arms from my neighbors 303RLS, which is the newer model with this awning.

In looking at my neighbors model of my trailer, I can see that the brackets to hold the top of the awning to the slide would fit if I mount in the same location as his. The only caveat is that the brackets would overlap the brackets for the slide topper. This may require me to manufacture a bracket that will function to hold both the awning bracket and the slit topper bracket. Not a major undertaking, and I could get them power coated to match the existing brackets.

My neighbor tells me our RV dealer will not put slide toppers on his trailer on this slide due to the same reasons they gave me. He has the slide awning, but no slide topper. So, if I can make it work, he will put a slide topper on his matching the brackets I do. I may actually make 4 brackets, 2 for each of us since he wants to do the same to his.

Curious if GD has done this, or offers a solution, or ??? Does GD offer both slide topper and awning on this slide as an option? Perhaps there is already a bracket to do both?

When we camp, that side of the trailer is often in the sun and an awning from the slide would shield the slide window and keep it cooler in the trailer.

Any advice is welcome.

[Cate&Rob]

tgodrich
Hi Tony . . . me again

When Grand Design added the awning to the slide on the 303, you can be assured that several of us with the earlier 303s were quick to ask about adding this to our trailers. The answer is that when they added the awning to the slide, they increased the structure in the upper corners to support attachment. If you were to attempt to fasten the awning arms in the same locations as the later trailers, you will find only the 3/16" luan skin to fasten to. There is structure above and outboard of this in the frame of the slide, so if your plan were to fasten here, that might be possible.

Many later 303s with the awning also have had slide toppers added. Your neighbour's dealer is misinformed on this. There are several related awning discussions on this forum.

Rob

[tgodrich]

Hi Cate&Rod,
Thanks for the quick reply. Just discovered this forum.

Can you be more specific on what the "structure above and outboard" is exactly? I would expect the slide out to have a frame runner across the top, as well as down the corners (like the frame of a box). I would expect that the RV dealer would attach the slide topper into that frame. Would be real surprised if they did this into the 3/16" skin. That would be asking for failure over time, especially if you get a lot of wind on the topper awning when the slide is extended.

Anyway, if they attached to that upper frame member, that is essentially the same place I would be creating and attaching my bracket. In looking at the neighbors Awning mounts, and my slide topper mounts, I may in fact be able to use one of the same two mounting screws for the slide topper bracket to also mount the Awning bracket.

I am assuming a steel or maybe aluminum slide frame, but maybe wood? Any idea the dimensions of the top frame member? For instance, how far does it extend down from the top of the slide (not the trim piece that extends way above the top of the slide box).

I am still hopeful I can make this work.

I will also pass along your input to my neighbor as it appears our RV dealer was in error to him. And along the lines of what they told me, nothing at all to do with the electrical.

Thanks,
Tony

[Cate&Rob]

tgodrich
Hi Tony,

There is an aluminum "T" extrusion that connects the outside wall to the top and sides of the slide out. It is behind the approximately 4" wide trim that goes around the outside of the slide. The attached picture is of the slide on my 2015 303. Note that the (dealer installed) slide topper is fastened to this perimeter trim and thus to the aluminum extrusion behind it. There is no structure behind the wall where the blue rectangle is in the picture. I have discussed this at length with the factory and reviewed the construction drawings. (There is structure added to this area on later 303s with the awning) I would be interested in how your toppers are installed. If you have a plan for the second awning to attach to the outer aluminum frame of the slide . . . we need to talk further .

Rob

[tgodrich]

tgodrich
Hi Tony,

There is an aluminum "T" extrusion that connects the outside wall to the top and sides of the slide out. It is behind the approximately 4" wide trim that goes around the outside of the slide. The attached picture is of the slide on my 2015 303. Note that the (dealer installed) slide topper is fastened to this perimeter trim and thus to the aluminum extrusion behind it. There is no structure behind the wall where the blue rectangle is in the picture. I have discussed this at length with the factory and reviewed the construction drawings. (There is structure added to this area on later 303s with the awning) I would be interested in how your toppers are installed. If you have a plan for the second awning to attach to the outer aluminum frame of the slide . . . we need to talk further .

Rob

I will take some pictures of mine and get back to you. My plan is to overlap the brackets onto the topper brackets, perhaps sharing some of the bolts. I would not expect there to be structure in the area you highlighted with the purple. I do expect it along the top. Perhaps you know the dimensions of the top runner? 2", 3", etc. Trying to judge how far down it goes. I imagine it would start perhaps 1/2" below the top of the slider box (not the slider trim). Have to account for the top of the slider box material (the roof of the slider). Honestly, to me the more difficult task will be fishing wire to the awning. Since I do not know what the naked walls look like, I have to imagine a box built sort of like a house frame with corners and studs every so often. Not sure if they put fire stop horizontal studs in an RV. I can see the studs on the walls of the RV on certain cold days early morning.

Is the frame on these sliders all Aluminum? That would make for a much lighter design.

My idea is to fish the wire up the inside of the slider wall to the point where the wire will come in from the awning. Then run the wire under the slider and over to where I would go up to behind the control panel. The control panel has an extra position for another switch, so I would get an identical switch from GD and add it there. I have also added a 2" voltmeter and push contact switch to be able to monitor the battery voltage from inside the trailer. These are all ideas at this point. No concrete plans yet. As an engineer, I research the thing to death before I actually proceed. Kind of lime measure 10 times, cut once.

Another though I have had is to add an external Aluminum plate on the outside of the slider, which I would bolt to the top runner of the slider, then attach my brackets to that. Perhaps 1/4" X 3" stock. I could get it powder coated to a color consistent with that of the RV. My local powder coat shop (Maas Brothers) has virtually the rainbow to choose from.

More later,

Tony

[Country Campers]

I think Carefree makes a wall mount awning that does not have the arms on the side that support a normal awning. These are used on the back of toy haulers above the door , not sure what brand GD uses though.
I have considered adding one of these to our 29RS because we can not have the style with the support arms. This may be something you could look at and be able to mount anywhere on the side wall. You would have to have some kind of plate on the inside of the RV to attach this style to but you would not be limited to a certain area for a stud.

Brian

[Superduty]

I will take some pictures of mine and get back to you. My plan is to overlap the brackets onto the topper brackets, perhaps sharing some of the bolts.

Tony

Tony
I attached a couple pictures of my 303, with the patio awning on the curb slide, along with a slide topper.
You can see the assembly on this. I’m curious, on how you could make and mount a bracket.
Rob, Howard and I have looked at this in help of getting the topper enough of a slope so it does not pool water.
I have looked at different brackets, but I see the patio awning roll and fabric hitting and rubbing the bracket causing issues during road travel and in storage .

Anyways, look at these pictures.

[Cate&Rob]

tgodrich
Hi Tony,

The exterior walls and the walls of the slides are framed with 1 1/2" square tube aluminum and all the open spaces are filled with rigid foam insulation. This structure is then laminated with the exterior and interior surfaces and pinch glued together. It is impossible to feed a wire up through an exterior wall . . . many of us have tried.

This is a good group to be working on this concept . . . let's keep bouncing ideas on this.

Rob

[howson]

...

To be blunt, the awnings on our RVs leave much to be desired. I've personally seen three (one at the National Rally) that were torn, arms bent, and fabric wrapped over the top of the RV due to a sudden wind storm. Even in a modest breeze the awnings on my camper bounce around terribly, inducing so much concern they rarely are deployed unless it is absolutely still.

Below are two pictures I snapped, coincidentally also at last year's National Rally, of an install on a Solitude. These are manually deployed, and look much more robust than OEM.

Food for thought...

[Superduty]

To be blunt, the awnings on our RVs leave much to be desired.

Howard,
I agree 100% on the motorized awning. I would take the manual ones any day. Even though it took more time to put them down/up, they were more stable.

If We are not under our awnings, they are up.

[JBill9694]

To be blunt, the awnings on our RVs leave much to be desired. I've personally seen three (one at the National Rally) that were torn, arms bent, and fabric wrapped over the top of the RV due to a sudden wind storm. Even in a modest breeze the awnings on my camper bounce around terribly, inducing so much concern they rarely are deployed unless it is absolutely still.

Below are two pictures I snapped, coincidentally also at last year's National Rally, of an install on a Solitude. These are manually deployed, and look much more robust than OEM.

Food for thought...

A manual awning is on our "some day" list for our roadside window. A little worried about finding enough structure in the wall for support. Maybe by then SWMBO will lighten on me drilling holes and I can put some plates on the interior face of the wall, I think I can hide them behind the interior window trim.

[tgodrich]

tgodrich
Hi Tony,

The exterior walls and the walls of the slides are framed with 1 1/2" square tube aluminum and all the open spaces are filled with rigid foam insulation. This structure is then laminated with the exterior and interior surfaces and pinch glued together. It is impossible to feed a wire up through an exterior wall . . . many of us have tried.

This is a good group to be working on this concept . . . let's keep bouncing ideas on this.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Finally got around to going to my neighbors to see his slide awning.

Both of us have 303 RLS 5th wheels; mine is a 2016 with a slide topper, and his is a 2017 with a slide awning.

I measured the bracket on my slide topper. It is 1.5" high from the bottom of the bracket to the slider trim. They mounted the slide topper with 4 screws per bracket, and the lower screws appear to be 1.25" on center from the top of the bracket. If the top rail is 1.5" extrusion, then I question if the lower screws are even hitting the extrusion frame. I would assume that the slider trim is also supposed to be screwed into the top frame, but perhaps it is only screwed into the side of the roof of the topper? My slide topper bracket as you can see is butted up against the slide trim.

On my neighbors, the awning actually has a bracket about 1.5" high, mounted in the same place as my slide topper. So essentially utilizing the same footprint as my slide topper, but the bracket is not as wide as the one on the slide topper I have. So the alignment of the 4 screws is not the same. Actually the two on the right side of the bracket might be the same, but not the left side of the bracket.

In looking at the mounting of "Superduty's" awning and slide topper together, the awning is mounted directly below the slide topper. I think this would place it where the Blue rectangle is in your prior photo.

If you look at a side view of the RV with both awning and slide topper, I think mounting the awning bracket on top of the slide topper bracket would result in interference between the two. The awning tube needs to roll.

So my thoughts are to design a mounting plate for each side that is essentially 3" high, and allows for both the awning to be mounted on the lower 1.5" and the slide topper on the upper 1.5". This is exactly what you described as the frame mods you described for the newer models to allow for both mounting. I would fashion the brackets out of 1/4" steel (or maybe 5/16" aluminum) such that I could drill and tap the awning mounting holes into the bracket, and not have to worry about no frame behind it. I would mount the bracket under the slide topper and utilize the same screw placement for slide topper bracket and my new bracket, perhaps adding two screws to account for the added load. Once two suitable brackets are fashioned, I would have them powder coated to match the colors already up there.

This would take care of the mounting. Still would have to deal with the connection rail for the vinyl to the side. In thinking this through, it might make sense to make one bracket the width of the slider to allow to also be able to mount the vinyl rail. I would go with Aluminum on this solution for weight concerns. Thoughts?

As far as electrical wiring...
If the interior of the wall is solid insulation, I would need to run a 1/4' flexible drill bit up the interior wall from underneath to get the wires to their location. They make long drill bits for this purpose for running wires in existing walls at home.

Another thing perhaps Superduty can confirm is if the slide topper bracket is actually mounted on top of his slider trim instead of under it like mine.

Attached are some pictures. Two of them are my slide topper brackets, and one is of my neighbors slide awning.

Thanks,
Tony

[Superduty]

Another thing perhaps Superduty can confirm is if the slide topper bracket is actually mounted on top of his slider trim instead of under it like mine.

Attached are some pictures. Two of them are my slide topper brackets, and one is of my neighbors slide awning.

Thanks,
Tony

Tony,
My topper brackets are mounted on the top of the flange, not underneath. They are the standard Dometic bracket which I believe the call the 45 degree bracket.
As I mention above, the slide patio awning top mount, is mounted where the topper bracket would have been if I did not have the patio awning.
I’m pulling the trailer out this Saturday as the weather is finally changing. If you need picture’s, etc, let me know.

Steve

[tgodrich]

Another thing perhaps Superduty can confirm is if the slide topper bracket is actually mounted on top of his slider trim instead of under it like mine.

Attached are some pictures. Two of them are my slide topper brackets, and one is of my neighbors slide awning.

Thanks,
Tony

Tony,
My topper brackets are mounted on the top of the flange, not underneath. They are the standard Dometic bracket which I believe the call the 45 degree bracket.
As I mention above, the slide patio awning top mount, is mounted where the topper bracket would have been if I did not have the patio awning.
I’m pulling the trailer out this Saturday as the weather is finally changing. If you need picture’s, etc, let me know.

Steve

I guess my question would be "Is there frame support for the topper bracket on top of the flange?" The flanges seem flimsy to me not capable of supporting the topper bracket by themselves. But the flanges are mounted to something. Any idea if it is the top frame rail? Bob has said this top frame rail is only 1.5" which leaves me wondering how much are the brackets actually attaching to it?

i would love to see a picture of the slider frame sans any walls or roof to see what is inside. Maybe the roof frame is square and sits on top of the wall frame? This would make for 3" of frame along the top.

Thanks,

Tony

[Cate&Rob]

tgodrich
Hi Tony,

I have been told that there is no structure behind where your topper brackets are attached (on our vintage of 303s). I have seen drawings that show this. Obviously this is not true. This is (reportedly) why my toppers were fastened to the trim piece above this. I will investigate further with Grand Design.

If you remove one of the screws holding your topper bracket, can you determine if it goes into an aluminum frame or perhaps a steel reinforcing sheet bonded to the back of the exterior wall luan ply?

Rob